|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| We are jobless english speaking teachers. They are looking for English speaking teachers. |
You have many other countries you could go to. Many of which you could spit on from korea.
| Quote: |
| but we were INVITED, and certain promises were made in conjunction with those invitations. |
In the context that those promises came from Koreans on doing business in a foreign country.
| Quote: |
| No, but the laws of that foreign country still apply whether we are citizens or not. |
The only laws are the ones that are enforced, and not all laws apply to everyone who isn't a citizen in every country. |
The laws are enforced haphazardly and selectively. Do you really think it's out of place expect Koreans to follow their own laws? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| [. We are trying to help Korea help itself. Why don't you join us in that noble undertaking? |
Because it's not your place to do so. And how does complaining on a message board in some obscure corner of the Internet accomplish change?
I've been on here since 2001. Back then there were a number of foreigners who were also trying to change Korea, or so they claimed. Guess what? It's still the same way. Until Koreans decide to change, it will remain the same. And the opinions of FTs will have the same weight in that change as they do now...zero.
And there's a fair chunk of the FT community which isn't in much of a position to be lecturing the Koreans on integrity. |
Really? Last year I was talking to a Korean who had come back after being away for nine years. He said he couldn't believe how much things have changed.
Also, if our opinions matter so little, why do some Koreans get so irate and offended about them (take LP's Seoul Guidebook, for instance)? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The laws are enforced haphazardly and selectively. Do you really think it's out of place expect Koreans to follow their own laws? |
since its haphazard and selective, yes.
While western business seems to rely on strict adherence *snicker* to the laws, or at least the appearance of it, korea doesn't seem to. The difference being that Korea I guess doesn't put up the facade that they doing that.
Everyone knows they don't, and yet acts surprised when they don't...
that is the real mystery...
| Quote: |
| why do some Koreans get so irate and offended about them |
you've triple posted at this point, learn to multi quote and edit existing messages.
because individuals don't represent society. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr-Dokdo
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| [. We are trying to help Korea help itself. Why don't you join us in that noble undertaking? |
Because it's not your place to do so. |
It is my place to do so: as a Christian, I am obliged, by my faith, to help all those who need help. So, will you join me or not? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The laws are enforced haphazardly and selectively. Do you really think it's out of place expect Koreans to follow their own laws? |
since its haphazard and selective, yes.
While western business seems to rely on strict adherence *snicker* to the laws, or at least the appearance of it, korea doesn't seem to. The difference being that Korea I guess doesn't put up the facade that they doing that.
Everyone knows they don't, and yet acts surprised when they don't...
that is the real mystery...
| Quote: |
| why do some Koreans get so irate and offended about them |
you've triple posted at this point, learn to multi quote and edit existing messages.
because individuals don't represent society. |
So VANK doesn't represent a strong element of society in any way? People who spend hours trying to change the name of two rocks in other countries' atlases don't care what others think? Yeah, right.
At any rate, I'm with the millions of Koreans who would like a better legal system with more consistancy. You can join the Koreans more content to sit around with their thumbs up their asses if you wish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Given that so much of the South Korean GDP is spent on skanks, it's a symptom of moral bankruptcy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
legalquestions
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Boys, take your fight outside, please! Start your own thread, if you are interested in hagwon thugs and trying to right Koreas social problems. I'm not interested.
Now, let's get back to my original post: why is there such a huge lack of integrity, and the resulting lack of credibility, here in Korea? Specifically, I am refering to corruption (bribery, payoffs, kickbacks, underhanders, side money, money under the table, juice, influence peddling, payola, tea money, chonjee, whatever)?
As I've said, it exists everywhere in the world, but they seem to take it to a new level here. What is the root cause of this widespread lack of integrity/corruption; why is it so widespread here? My guess is that it is caused, at least in part, by overpopulation (ie, too much sex)- too many people competing for limited resources. You've got to grease someones palm to get what you want.
But then that doesn't explain why so many people foolishly get caught up in these "borrowed name" accounts. How stupid can you get? How difficult can it be for the prosecutors to subpoena your relatives bank accounts? Not very, I'd imagine.
And what about the stupidity/greed of rich people who extort/steal/demand bribes? Most don't need the money, so why do they do it? Ego? Power trip?
Sometimes it seems like there is some unwritten rule here requiring people to bend the rules/laws. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| legalquestions wrote: |
Boys, take your fight outside, please! Start your own thread, if you are interested in hagwon thugs and trying to right Koreas social problems. I'm not interested.
Now, let's get back to my original post: why is there such a huge lack of integrity, and the resulting lack of credibility, here in Korea? Specifically, I am refering to corruption (bribery, payoffs, kickbacks, underhanders, side money, money under the table, juice, influence peddling, payola, tea money, chonjee, whatever)?
As I've said, it exists everywhere in the world, but they seem to take it to a new level here. What is the root cause of this widespread lack of integrity/corruption; why is it so widespread here? My guess is that it is caused, at least in part, by overpopulation (ie, too much sex)- too many people competing for limited resources. You've got to grease someones palm to get what you want.
But then that doesn't explain why so many people foolishly get caught up in these "borrowed name" accounts. How stupid can you get? How difficult can it be for the prosecutors to subpoena your relatives bank accounts? Not very, I'd imagine.
And what about the stupidity/greed of rich people who extort/steal/demand bribes? Most don't need the money, so why do they do it? Ego? Power trip?
Sometimes it seems like there is some unwritten rule here requiring people to bend the rules/laws. |
You should go back and look at my posts, if you don't feel like it, maybe reading this will give you a handle of why:
http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/resources/global-etiquette/south-korea-country-profile.html) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| EzeWong wrote: |
The way I see it, the best way to resolve these problems is on BOTH sides. We as foreigners need to learn the culture and ways of the system that Koreans go by. We need to develop ways to deal with our bosses in these non-confronting manners (That we just love to do) and to develop Kibon. All foreigners who want to adapt need to be aware of this
|
I was as sweet as a basket of kittens when my old boss and I were non-confronting each other (how come that sounds dirty? Aaahh, because I'm a perv). He still ended up with 2 mill of my money and I still left him without a teacher. I did get my degree back, though. Maybe you're onto something .here.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| legalquestions wrote: |
Boys, take your fight outside, please! Start your own thread, if you are interested in hagwon thugs and trying to right Koreas social problems. I'm not interested.
Now, let's get back to my original post: why is there such a huge lack of integrity, and the resulting lack of credibility, here in Korea? Specifically, I am refering to corruption (bribery, payoffs, kickbacks, underhanders, side money, money under the table, juice, influence peddling, payola, tea money, chonjee, whatever)?
As I've said, it exists everywhere in the world, but they seem to take it to a new level here. What is the root cause of this widespread lack of integrity/corruption; why is it so widespread here? My guess is that it is caused, at least in part, by overpopulation (ie, too much sex)- too many people competing for limited resources. You've got to grease someones palm to get what you want.
But then that doesn't explain why so many people foolishly get caught up in these "borrowed name" accounts. How stupid can you get? How difficult can it be for the prosecutors to subpoena your relatives bank accounts? Not very, I'd imagine.
And what about the stupidity/greed of rich people who extort/steal/demand bribes? Most don't need the money, so why do they do it? Ego? Power trip?
Sometimes it seems like there is some unwritten rule here requiring people to bend the rules/laws. |
Clearly you haven't traveled much...see the picture I linked too...corruption is the norm for 90%+ of countries on earth...and very high levels at that...if you think korea is the wild west I suggest you not live in Russia, China...latin america....South east asia....infact avoid most of the world.
However I will say this, Koreans do buck laws, however I suspect part of it is due to it's very long and recent history of having dictatorships and occupying forces....I can't imagine that endears many of the elderly to a deep respect of the law nor passing it down to grand children.
That is my guess....
And not to much sex...south Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
legalquestions
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe the lowest birthrate now, but that is a recent thing (due to the expense primarily). They've been breeding like flies (rabbits?) here for how long now? 5,000 years, if they are to be believed.
But why are they so greedy vis-a-vis bribes and other forms of graft? I've been traveling and living abroad since the 1960's, so yes I am aware that it happens in most places (as I've stated numerous times now in this thread), but they seem to take it to a new level here, and across the board, at all levels of society - from the president down to the parking lot ajossi.
I guess you'd ahve to blame it on apathy. Everybody is looking for their cut. People generally get the government they deserve, it has been said. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| [. We are trying to help Korea help itself. Why don't you join us in that noble undertaking? |
Because it's not your place to do so. And how does complaining on a message board in some obscure corner of the Internet accomplish change?
I've been on here since 2001. Back then there were a number of foreigners who were also trying to change Korea, or so they claimed. Guess what? It's still the same way. Until Koreans decide to change, it will remain the same. And the opinions of FTs will have the same weight in that change as they do now...zero.
And there's a fair chunk of the FT community which isn't in much of a position to be lecturing the Koreans on integrity. |
Have you opened your eyes once since 2001? There have been many notable changes in the five years I have been here and yes...some of them have resulted from the opinions and influence of foreigners in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Join Me wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| [. We are trying to help Korea help itself. Why don't you join us in that noble undertaking? |
Because it's not your place to do so. And how does complaining on a message board in some obscure corner of the Internet accomplish change?
I've been on here since 2001. Back then there were a number of foreigners who were also trying to change Korea, or so they claimed. Guess what? It's still the same way. Until Koreans decide to change, it will remain the same. And the opinions of FTs will have the same weight in that change as they do now...zero.
And there's a fair chunk of the FT community which isn't in much of a position to be lecturing the Koreans on integrity. |
Have you opened your eyes once since 2001? There have been many notable changes in the five years I have been here and yes...some of them have resulted from the opinions and influence of foreigners in Korea. |
I never said the opinions of FOREIGNERS, I said the opinions of FTS (foreign teachers) So can you list some notable changes in Korea's laws (for the better) that FOREIGN TEACHERS were primarily responsible for? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| [. We are trying to help Korea help itself. Why don't you join us in that noble undertaking? |
Because it's not your place to do so. And how does complaining on a message board in some obscure corner of the Internet accomplish change?
I've been on here since 2001. Back then there were a number of foreigners who were also trying to change Korea, or so they claimed. Guess what? It's still the same way. Until Koreans decide to change, it will remain the same. And the opinions of FTs will have the same weight in that change as they do now...zero.
And there's a fair chunk of the FT community which isn't in much of a position to be lecturing the Koreans on integrity. |
Really? Last year I was talking to a Korean who had come back after being away for nine years. He said he couldn't believe how much things have changed.
Well I was talking about the treatment of teachers. Actually though you are correct. It has changed... it's gone downhill.
Also, if our opinions matter so little, why do some Koreans get so irate and offended about them (take LP's Seoul Guidebook, for instance)? |
Can you list an issue where the opinions of FOREIGN TEACHERS have made a change in Korea's laws? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| [. We are trying to help Korea help itself. Why don't you join us in that noble undertaking? |
Because it's not your place to do so. And how does complaining on a message board in some obscure corner of the Internet accomplish change?
I've been on here since 2001. Back then there were a number of foreigners who were also trying to change Korea, or so they claimed. Guess what? It's still the same way. Until Koreans decide to change, it will remain the same. And the opinions of FTs will have the same weight in that change as they do now...zero.
And there's a fair chunk of the FT community which isn't in much of a position to be lecturing the Koreans on integrity. |
Really? Last year I was talking to a Korean who had come back after being away for nine years. He said he couldn't believe how much things have changed.
Well I was talking about the treatment of teachers. Actually though you are correct. It has changed... it's gone downhill.
Also, if our opinions matter so little, why do some Koreans get so irate and offended about them (take LP's Seoul Guidebook, for instance)? |
Can you list an issue where the opinions of FOREIGN TEACHERS have made a change in Korea's laws? |
At a few universities foreigners have been able to change hiring practices in some departments and curricula. Foreigners are also responsible for weeding out and no doubt scaring off a number of fraudulent academics. A few foreigners have successfully challenged and manipulated Korea's investment visa restrictions and have been able to open up a few foreign-owned hagwons. A number of foreigners have successfully challanged employment conditions and frightened other employers from violating them. I have no doubt that the opinion of FTs has contributed to various government pronouncements that all KETs must conduct classes in English starting in 2008 / 2010 / 2012 / 2015 (of course the reality is very different but it's still a MoE regulation).
Those are just a few things that come to mind. For far less than 0.1% of the population I'd say that's proportional. The long-term subtle influences of teachers on their students also can't be discounted. Every teacher who enforces the rule of law in their classroom is contributing toward a future society that may as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
