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MA_TESOL
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Location: Seoul
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newteacher
Joined: 31 May 2007
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 Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| i think the article tries to be a little bit more impartial than you imply, but i'm sure there will be plenty of koreans who will claim that the blame lies completely with the US. |
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in_seoul_2003
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Mostly indirectly though.
I put neither America, in its tacit approval, nor Korea, in its penchant for executions, beyond any of these attrocities.
I do, however, only hope that South Korea fess up to the crimes they committed in Vietnam and that South Koreans demand as much attention to truth and reconciliation in this matter as they do regarding the Korean War. |
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newteacher
Joined: 31 May 2007
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| It is probably consolation that the other side was doing the exact same thing to rightists as well. At least in South Korea they didn't wipe all their political opponents out. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Had the Americans tried to intervene, we'd be hearing about how
A) America was interfering in Korean matters
and/or
B) America secretly sympathized with South Korea's enemies |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| "When the people from the other side (North Korea) came here, they didn't kill many people," he said, contrasting that with "indiscriminate" killing by southern authorities. |
This is the only really stupid thing in the article. It shouldn't have been written. The article stated something that is under investigation and deserves exposure, but this comment is completely unfounded and has been usually presented as the opposite. The North has been merciless, reports from their deeds during the war support this and nothing they have done since then has suggested otherwise.
To try and imply that somehow Americans were worse in this area is not based in reality. To say that the American army did horrible things is within reason. They carpet bombed the country...most of which was done in the north. In old military reports it is classified as terror bombing. Bombing that does not discriminate between civilian and military targets but is designed to scare the enemy into giving up. I think looking at the US military practice of bombing enemy states would be of more value.
If any journalist chooses to look at war crimes such as the ones written about in the article, they should take a more egalitarian aproach as all the groups involved in the war were guilty of executing civilians. Soldiers hid within the villages, spies hid within villages....and so many army commanders from all sides wiped out entire villages if the suspected they were hiding enemy soldiers. The American army was no different. If anything they may have been less likely to do so because it was never a part of their standing orders (unlike carpet bombing) and not suppored by the Geneva Convention (which the American army would have been held more accountable to). Based on their actions since the war, it would seem likely that these statements are highly exagerated. Both Northern dictators and Southern dictators have more highly documented cases of atrocities. |
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DaveMcK
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
Had the Americans tried to intervene, we'd be wanking over how
A) America saved your arse
and/or
B) America owns you and you should forever bend over and let us smell your sh1te cos we like that |
I fixed it for you. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DaveMcK wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
Had the Americans tried to intervene, we'd be wanking over how
A) America saved your arse
and/or
B) America owns you and you should forever bend over and let us smell your sh1te cos we like that |
I fixed it for you. |
Too late. Americans did save South Korea twice in ten years and all America hears is:
- Yeah but you dont really care about us, you did it for selfish reasons
- you didnt stop us from killing our own children |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DaveMcK wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
Had the Americans tried to intervene, we'd be wanking over how
A) America saved your arse
and/or
B) America owns you and you should forever bend over and let us smell your sh1te cos we like that |
I fixed it for you. |
I appreciate the effort, but I am not American. |
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DaveMcK
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| DaveMcK wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
Had the Americans tried to intervene, we'd be wanking over how
A) America saved your arse
and/or
B) America owns you and you should forever bend over and let us smell your sh1te cos we like that |
I fixed it for you. |
Too late. Americans did save South Korea twice in ten years and all America hears is:
- Yeah but you dont really care about us, you did it for selfish reasons
- you didnt stop us from killing our own children |
Why would you do such a thing? |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
- you didnt stop us from killing our own children |
I get this impression sometimes that the western world (or the Yanks) are 100% to blame for the problems of Korea. |
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Morton
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| The American army was no different. If anything they may have been less likely to do so, (wipe out entire villages), because it was never a part of their standing orders |
This is a quote from a BBC report:
"Declassified military documents recently found in the US National Archives show clearly how US commanders repeatedly, and without ambiguity, ordered forces under their control to target and kill Korean refugees caught on the battlefield."
The full article can be read at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/coldwar/korea_usa_01.shtml |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Morton wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The American army was no different. If anything they may have been less likely to do so, (wipe out entire villages), because it was never a part of their standing orders |
This is a quote from a BBC report:
"Declassified military documents recently found in the US National Archives show clearly how US commanders repeatedly, and without ambiguity, ordered forces under their control to target and kill Korean refugees caught on the battlefield."
The full article can be read at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/coldwar/korea_usa_01.shtml |
I'm not saying that soldiers weren't ordered to kill civilians...they bombed them.
unfortunately the article isn't clear if these are orders from the colonels, generals...or field officers. All of which are commanding officers.
An order from an officer in the field is far different from a command given by MacArthur. Poor cammands by officers in the field happen to this day in any war by any nation or army regardless of conventions made to govern war.
American troops also killed entire villages in Vietnam. This does not make this an American phenomenon.
While this is an important issue and the article was over all unbiased there is a possilble error of ommission being presented here in Korea. This article really isn't to blame as it wasn't written in Korea, but the issue seems to be being brought up a little too loudly in the world arena by a Korean press or political system that sees benefit to addressing the things Americans did poorly here rather than there own atrocities...and oddly enough we never hear about the horrible things that are still going on in NK. I could be wrong though...
Sometimes I don't understand the silence in Korea over the atrocities committed by the North past or present. Probably far more worthy of coverage in the press than these misdeeds of the Americans. Not to mention where are the stories of what there own army did to its people? It's not like the South Korean army was magically able to figure out who the enemy was when they went into a village. They also wiped out entire villages...even ones located in the South because they thought they supported the North.
I'm not saying I know the answer here, or that this isn't worth making known. I'm just throwing in my two cents about a single comment in the article and wondering why all the attrocities aren't being looked at in the Korean press?
Also, carpet bombing is not something the American military ever covered up. You can read about it on wikipedia...(or at least you used to be able to...they seem to have cleaned it up, but terror bombing and carpet bombing pages still exist).
A highly destructive practice that they still do to this day. Perhaps this would be something more worthy of both the attention of the press and the attention of Koreans, rather than a peice that serves only to promote nationalism. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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The biggest problem with most Korean media is that they tend to interview people who will reinforce Korean nationalism and/or xenophobia as opposed to attempting a truly objective stance on any given issue.
On the other hand, Western media is far more likely to be critical of America, its history, its affairs, etc... when it is called for. As a result, Westerners are far more likely to blame themselves, their government, etc... UNLESS they are in Korea. Still, what tends to set us apart from your average brainwashed Korean is that we are often more willing to face the truth.
MacArthur was for the most part also responsible for some of the nastiest fighting the world had ever seen-- against Japan in WWII. Were American soldiers capable of killing children? I don't think that anything in the history of American warfare would prove otherwise...
On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's true, or that the other side wasn't capable of being just as nasty... and no one will ever know the truth. |
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