Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mrgisa]

Hi All,


Strange thing happened to me today and I wanted to share my story with you.

Background info: I work at a public school teaching at the HS level. About 100 teachers total. I've been here for about 5 years and know the basics of Korean manners and interaction. This situation caught me off guard.

Apparently a few days ago, two teachers had relatives in law that passed away. They were not teachers that I knew directly (as in they are not my coteachers or teachers who come to my English Teacher classes on a regular basis). Perhaps if I saw them, I might recognize them but yeah...

This week, they have finals so I am deskwarming until 12:30 pm. I had no major problem with that but when I was dumped dumped and dumped some more with winter camp classes, I realized I'd be quite busy and would be doing work at home.

Anyhow, when I was about to leave yesterday, the master teacher I share the office with (very nice Korean teacher) told me she was going to one of the teacher's houses with regards to the death and invited me to join along. I declined for several reasons (some may seem cold but hear me out):

1) I do not know this teacher directly. I would definitely think differently if it was a coteacher or a teacher student of mine.
2) I have way too much to do and my free time is valuable. I'm being asked to make 2 completely different winter camp plans, 1 version of which is easier for the intermediate students, as well as a teachers camp plan and next week's lesson.
3) I have not dealt with the death of a close relative yet but when my we had to put our dog down in high school, I was quite sad for a few days and preferred to be alone. I would not want people crowding me and trying to make me feel better, especially if it was insincere or perfunctory. I know several people who preferred to be alone to grieve and I think I would do the same.

I didn't think too much of it but today when I came to work, the master teacher told me about what happened. Apparently the teacher who's relative died asked about me and where I was. The master teacher was shocked and didn't know what to say. I did not think I made that much of an impact on the Korean teachers and as I don't recognize her name I thought it would not be a big deal.

After some embarassment and frustration, I tried to calmly explain my point of view, which naturally didn't jibe with the cultural notion of going to a coworkers house when their family member dies. I also tried to explain that I do what I do, not what a culture tells me to do, even in my own. Just because Koreans are expected to go to anothers house for a funeral does not mean that they want to or should have to. They do this because of community right? Well obviously we foreigners don't exactly fit into that scheme, nor are we treated with respect in that sense.

Speaking from experience, I got married in Korea right after finishing working at my past hagwon. None of the teachers came (I respect that it was farther away, that they are overworked and busy so I didn't hold anything against them really). They could have called I guess though...

Anyhow, I guess I'm baffled. We don't get extra gift money for Korean holidays even though we work in the public system yet I'm certainly being worked as much, if not more as the Koreans are at times. We certainly aren't treated as equals in Korea in many regards and yet we are expected to adopt to their culture to a degree. I think that's fair, but was this expecting too much? I didn't want to hurt this teacher's feelings but yeah, I don't feel I was in the wrong for not going.

What do you guys think? Any advice?

My advice is to consider going if this happens to you. I'll be trying to clean up this *social mess* next week.

Gisa ^^

[Jeff's Cigarettes]

Of course you go...who would turn down free soju and food, duh!

[Xuanzang]

Buy a nice gift basket and bow. Either that or money in an envelope.

[English Matt]

In my second month here a similar situation cropped up for me. Myself and some of the English teachers went for dinner with the Principal, and towards the end of the meal the Head English Teacher mentioned that one of the teacher's father-in-law had died and did I want to come to the funeral that evening.

I thought to myself, "As much fun as that sounds....no". Instead I just sort of flustered and said that I didn't feel comfortable going as I didn't know the teacher, and that in the UK these things are private affairs. I also mentioned that as an outsider and foreigner I didn't feel comfortable going to such an event, as I felt....in a weird sort of way....that I'd detract from the recently deceased as the focus of the occasion and that his family would not like me being there. He seemed to accept this, although sounded a bit disappointed. Nothing more was said - at least not that was relayed to me....and everything continued as 'normal' at my school.

This may have been because I was new to Korea and the school....I get the feeling that making an appearance at a colleague's relative's funeral is expected and it is seen as a big snub if you do not attend. However, I really have no intention in the future of going to the funeral of a stranger....it feels ghoulish and is one of those things that I would stick to my guns about. Death can bring out all sorts of emotions and feelings in people....why should they expect anyone to expose themselves to such an event if it may effect them negatively. It'd be a bit like expecting a vegetarian to tuck into some sam gyup sal or bo shin tang because that's just the way it is in Korea.

[Bondrock]

MrGisa:

if your coworkers gave you money when you got married, then in their minds they fulfilled the customary obligation although they didn't attend.

In the case of a funeral it is customary to give 'mourning money' , even if you do not go to the funeral. Ask for the bank account and transfer 30,000 won to the teacher who had a death in the family. that should (pardon the pun) warm things up.

[mrgisa]

Interesting...

Then I ask myself, if it were me (and theoretically it will be me someday, although most likely not when I'm here) would they do the same? I don't think I could accept money from my coteachers.

I plan on talking to her, giving her my sincerest condolences and trying to explain that when it comes to dealing with death, I prefer to do it alone and would only want the same for her in terms of respect. Not sure if she'll get it. I wish Koreans knew about the golden rule...

Gisa ^^

[fromtheuk]

When I got married my co-teacher who I didn't like said she wanted to attend the wedding. She didn't follow it up because she got clear vibes from me I didn't want her to come.

I am so aloof from my Korean colleagues they never offered any gift money for my wedding and we all know if somebody died at my school I wouldn't be told too much about it.

If somebody at school told me of the death of a teacher, I would give tactful words of sympathy and that's it.

It's all down to approach. You shouldn't feel guilty at all. Just clearly explain your approach to this issue and leave it at that.

You've hit the nail on the head. You're working hard and not getting the same benefits other public school employees receive.

It's because of that and many other related issues I simply don't care about what goes on in the lives of my colleagues.

I think your colleagues are trying to test how servile you are. Be polite but don't apologize at all. What crime did you commit?

All I would do is offer words of sympathy. Thankfully, my colleagues don't tell me anything because they know we all don't care about each other anyway.

[sojourner1]

I guess you're supposed to go to a funeral just like a dinner and it's not a private family affair. Could you imagine your boss at home requesting (and expecting) that you go to a funeral, because his father in-law pass away? This seems ridiculous, uncomfortable and meaningless as you don't know these people.


If I get invited to one, I'll go just to see how Koreans mourn the dead. Do they wear black? Do they have a funeral at a church and then limo out to the cemetery for burial? What does a Korean cemetery look like? Are people buried on family property and then Earth is mounded up to make a mound similar to Ancient American Indians. I see all these mounds with stone markers when hiking, but never seen a cemetery other than single graves here and there.

Do they drink soju and smoke a pack of cigarettes during the funeral?

[Oreovictim]

There was a receptionist who worked at my school. I didn't really know her. She could speak about as much English as I could Korean. I do remember this: even though I was about five years older than her, she would speak to me in ban mal. About three months into my contract, she left. Apparently, everyone knew that she gave notice except for the foreign teachers.

Well, about four months passed by, and she walks into work one day. She was handing out wedding invitations to all of us - two days before her wedding. Again, I'm sure that everyone knew except for me. Did I cancel my plans at the last moment to go to a wedding? Hell no.

As for your situation: I guarantee that other coworkers didn't go either. But since you're the only foreigner and you stick out, it's easy for this person to remember you.

You made good points. I don't think that they'll understand, but no big deal.

[beast]

I feel for you. Though, having been here five years, you do know by now two important things. Turning down your boss is not a good thing, even if you disagree with it on principle. Second, if you ever fully want to be accepted by the Koreans, you have to act like a Korean. I am not critisizing you, those are just two facts that we both know, but maybe don't want to admit, or to adhere to.

[bogey666]

interesting thread. I'll have to keep my heads up for this down the road.

on the day of our school field trip, after lunch I was informed that the teachers were going south for some funeral (apparently they were texted/notified the night before or that morning).. I think it was a parent of some teacher at the school. I wasn't told which, I doubt I knew him/her.

I was simply told that you can go home. Which I did, thinking nothing of it.

but my school's cool about cultural stuff like this, etc - in fact i've been often told I don't have to do some of the things that Korean teachers do, because I'm not a Korean teacher (e.g. if they have a meeting in the afternoon, they tell me to go home)

since I realize I'm getting fairly special treatment, I try to be as helpful as possible otherwise and "one of the teachers" (within limits of course)

[Join Me]

On a positive note. I think it is interesting how often this same topic is appearing on this board. Just a few years ago I don't think a Korean co-worker would have even thought to have mentioned the death of a relative to a foreign co-worker. Now they are offended if we don't go to the wake. The times they are a changing.

[Becka]

One of the office admin ladies at my school's mother died last week. I didn't know about it until late Friday afternoon, when all the teachers were preparing to go to about 100km away to the funeral. I half-wondered if I should make some gesture, but no one seemed to expect it of me and no one asked, so I let it be. Obviously when I see this person again, I'll extend my condolences.

[Kikomom]

I know that college grads know what a 'Thank You' card is, but have you ever heard of 'Condolence' cards? Yes, there is such a thing for snail mail. There's probably an address posted somewhere around your offices, but in Korean so you'd never know it. Just ask for the address and drop a card to them. Get a co-teacher to add a personal note in Korean, or do it yourself in English and let them figure it out. Or you could just get the card and hand it to them.


My off-the-wall thoughts on this: Besides money wishes, there may be some karma points the deceased earns for how many mourners show up? Might reflect on your karmic score too?

[DHC]

Not attending a colleague's funeral,if if you don't know the person,is considered a serious breach of etiquette and is culturally insensitive. It can also be considered very rude and even insulting. If you are looking to stay in Korea any length of time or desirous of being accepted by Koreans (not to mention relations with your employer) then you need to be culturally sensitive. Different cultures have different ways of dealing with death. To ignore this is in most cultures considered very rude. Most Koreans would say nothing to you about your behavior but you can rest assured that every Korean will hear of it and most,if not all,will not approve.