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wheredowego
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: Just got fired in the 11th month... advice? |
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So here's the story. My hagwon wanted me to work on Saturday. According to the contract, I was only required to work 2 Saturdays a year tops. This would have been the third one. I showed up in the morning and taught for 2 hours. I only had one class that day. Then I pointed out that I wasn't required to work a third Saturday, said I was nice enough to teach the one class, but that I was going to go home. I didn't want to sit around for 4 hours more doing nothing, which is what they expected of me. My boss said she was upset and that something bad may happen to me on Monday.
I went in on Monday and they fired me. They told me they did not want me working that day and said I had a week to vacate my apartment. They gave me no written notice of my contract being terminated.
I pointed out that according to the contract, they had to give me 45 days notice if they were going to fire me (my contract ends on Jan.29th). She said they didn't
I pointed out that according to Korean law, they had to either give me 30 days notice or pay me an extra month's wages. She said they didn't.
I immediately went to immigration. They didn't have a record of the termination. The guy did not speak English well. He told me that the school had to file some sort of termination of employment record with immigration within 15 days. He said that once that was filed, I would have 30 days to stay in the country. I told him that I wanted immigration to have a record of the fact that I was fired, but he didn't seem to understand and I didn't know what to say to him. So I left.
I'm going to go to the labor board over this. Any advice? |
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nate2008
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Burn down the hagwon and slash the director's tires.
I know nothing about the legal side of this so I'm contributing what advice I can. Others will be more helpful. Good luck. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep showing up for work and staying there for the contracted hours. If you got no written notice of termination, then you weren't fired. If you fail to show up for work on a regularly scheduled workday (Monday through Friday), then you are the one who has terminated the employment without notice. |
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hwarangi
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Have you contacted the labour board? They are the best people to contact in this situation (not immi). Call the number on the website - I found the English-speaking counselor quite helpful. Best of luck! |
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brandonna
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: Re: Just got fired in the 11th month... advice? |
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| wheredowego wrote: |
So here's the story. My hagwon wanted me to work on Saturday. According to the contract, I was only required to work 2 Saturdays a year tops. This would have been the third one. I showed up in the morning and taught for 2 hours. I only had one class that day. Then I pointed out that I wasn't required to work a third Saturday, said I was nice enough to teach the one class, but that I was going to go home. I didn't want to sit around for 4 hours more doing nothing, which is what they expected of me. My boss said she was upset and that something bad may happen to me on Monday.
I went in on Monday and they fired me. They told me they did not want me working that day and said I had a week to vacate my apartment. They gave me no written notice of my contract being terminated.
I pointed out that according to the contract, they had to give me 45 days notice if they were going to fire me (my contract ends on Jan.29th). She said they didn't
I pointed out that according to Korean law, they had to either give me 30 days notice or pay me an extra month's wages. She said they didn't.
I immediately went to immigration. They didn't have a record of the termination. The guy did not speak English well. He told me that the school had to file some sort of termination of employment record with immigration within 15 days. He said that once that was filed, I would have 30 days to stay in the country. I told him that I wanted immigration to have a record of the fact that I was fired, but he didn't seem to understand and I didn't know what to say to him. So I left.
I'm going to go to the labor board over this. Any advice? |
You've done what you should be doing in your situation. The Labor Board will probably help you collect 30 days from the day they finally give you notice. Do what Centralcali says even though it may be uncomfortable. Basically, the Labor Board will need to look at your contract and you'll have to show where it says you shouldn't be working more than 2 Saturdays. However, according to them, you are still employed until that employer gives you the actual letter in hand.
I know nate2008 was joking, but if you do what he says, let's say another department may be contacting you and Immigration may be helpless at that time.  |
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daz1979
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Gangwon-Do
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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They have to give 30 days notice or they must pay you 30 days pay. The LB can help you with this and they'll also contact your snake boss about the 11 month firing regulations.
He'll be up shit street. Nice-UH! |
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wheredowego
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Ok. They gave me no notice but told me to go home and I did so. So tomorrow I will go in and ask for a letter of termination. If they don't give it, should I just sit there and wait? Is there someone I should call to get it?
I just returned from the Ministry of Labor, had my girlfriend translating. They are going to go after the 30 days pay for me. When I asked about severance (said I wanted to sue for severance), they said it wasn't there department and I needed to go somewhere else (I forgot to ask my girlfriend the name of the place I should be going to).
What's the law about the 11th month? Just to clarify, my contract began at the end of January this year. So I am currently in my 11th month or, to put it another way, I have worked 10 and a half months so far. When I was at the labor board, they didn't say anything about the 11th month thing. |
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wheredowego
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| I should also point out that, although I left work today, it was at the bequest of my employer. They told me to go home. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Keep showing up for work and staying there for the contracted hours. If you got no written notice of termination, then you weren't fired. If you fail to show up for work on a regularly scheduled workday (Monday through Friday), then you are the one who has terminated the employment without notice. |
This is the correct advice. Keep showing up until they give you a firing notice, IN WRITING. If they give you a notice, IN WRITING, then you can file with Labor and claim they fired you to avoid paying you severance.
BTW, keep all documents, and anything else you have to prove your case, IN A SAFE PLACE. That may be with a friend or someone else you can trust.
It's good that you 1) know where to file for wrongful termination and 2) have the courage to go to these places and speak for yourself.
BTW, many of us have been through this and can advise you about what to do and what may happen. Expect the worst and hope for the best. PM me, or others, if you need private advice. |
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brandonna
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| wheredowego wrote: |
Ok. They gave me no notice but told me to go home and I did so. So tomorrow I will go in and ask for a letter of termination. If they don't give it, should I just sit there and wait? Is there someone I should call to get it?
I just returned from the Ministry of Labor, had my girlfriend translating. They are going to go after the 30 days pay for me. When I asked about severance (said I wanted to sue for severance), they said it wasn't there department and I needed to go somewhere else (I forgot to ask my girlfriend the name of the place I should be going to).
What's the law about the 11th month? Just to clarify, my contract began at the end of January this year. So I am currently in my 11th month or, to put it another way, I have worked 10 and a half months so far. When I was at the labor board, they didn't say anything about the 11th month thing. |
The Labor Board from what it sounds is actually able to warn your employer and fine them higher than the amount of the severance pay. They may have perhaps told you to go to the Ministry of Justice which you would have to file a formal complaint like a lawsuit if the Labor Board's attempts were ignored. It's detailed here: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/expatriate_seoul/69030 (this is a bit old though; so it may have changed since 2001) |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| wheredowego wrote: |
| I should also point out that, although I left work today, it was at the bequest of my employer. They told me to go home. |
It may be a bluff just to scare you.
Maybe the business is failing and they want you to flee so they won't have to pay you severance. Just stay strong and you can get through this situation, and those of us who've also been through it can give you advice.
BTW, you do know that even if your boss screws you over, you can get a job at a new school in a few weeks. Because you are in the last month of your contract, your visa is about to expire. So, your crummy boss can't hold you hostage over a Letter of release.
You can start looking for a new teaching job, NOW. It'll be easy because there are many openings. My advice? Try for a public school job.
You can also fight for monies owed while you work at your next school. Just make sure you tell the school officials that you were cheated by your last school and that you may need some time off to attend hearings. As long as they understand your situation, up front, you'll be fine.
EVERYONE in Korea knows that hagwons cheat teachers- even Korean teachers. |
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brandonna
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| wheredowego wrote: |
| I should also point out that, although I left work today, it was at the bequest of my employer. They told me to go home. |
EVERYONE in Korea knows that hagwons cheat teachers- even Korean teachers. |
Uhhhh, I hope you're not meaning "ALL" hagwons. I know plenty of them that don't. I'm not defending the screwed up ones like the one this guy worked for, but just hoping that this is not what you mean.
It's like me saying EVERYONE in the world knows wylies99 exaggerates ^^ |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Just got fired in the 11th month... advice? |
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| wheredowego wrote: |
| I immediately went to immigration. They didn't have a record of the termination. The guy did not speak English well. He told me that the school had to file some sort of termination of employment record with immigration within 15 days. He said that once that was filed, I would have 30 days to stay in the country. I told him that I wanted immigration to have a record of the fact that I was fired, but he didn't seem to understand and I didn't know what to say to him. So I left. |
Go back and get your exit order. They need to, in one way or another, put on your record that you were fired. Otherwise, the school can come back later and claim you walked out or you did a runner. It wouldn't be the first time a school did that.
| wheredowego wrote: |
| I just returned from the Ministry of Labor, had my girlfriend translating. They are going to go after the 30 days pay for me. When I asked about severance (said I wanted to sue for severance), they said it wasn't there department and I needed to go somewhere else (I forgot to ask my girlfriend the name of the place I should be going to). |
They are drunk. They are LABOUR. Severance is covered by Labour laws, thus severance IS their department.
| wheredowego wrote: |
| What's the law about the 11th month? |
The Labor Board has been well aware for YEARS of the 11-month firing strategy many hagwons employ. They have cracked down on the practice years ago. That this office didn't address it makes me think you're working with incompetents. Go to the Labor head office in Gangnam and get it sorted out properly.
Last edited by Young FRANKenstein on Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| brandonna wrote: |
| The Labor Board from what it sounds is actually able to warn your employer and fine them higher than the amount of the severance pay. |
The Labor Board does not have the power to fine anyone. They can rule in your favour and they can tell the school to pay up, but if the school ignores the ruling, you are forced to go the route of lawsuits to get your money. Of course, in a lawsuit, a Labor ruling in your favour goes a LONG way to winning the case. |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| wheredowego wrote: |
| I should also point out that, although I left work today, it was at the bequest of my employer. They told me to go home. |
It may be a bluff just to scare you.
Maybe the business is failing and they want you to flee so they won't have to pay you severance. Just stay strong and you can get through this situation, and those of us who've also been through it can give you advice.
BTW, you do know that even if your boss screws you over, you can get a job at a new school in a few weeks. Because you are in the last month of your contract, your visa is about to expire. So, your crummy boss can't hold you hostage over a Letter of release.
You can start looking for a new teaching job, NOW. It'll be easy because there are many openings. My advice? Try for a public school job.
You can also fight for monies owed while you work at your next school. Just make sure you tell the school officials that you were cheated by your last school and that you may need some time off to attend hearings. As long as they understand your situation, up front, you'll be fine.
EVERYONE in Korea knows that hagwons cheat teachers- even Korean teachers. |
From my experience I'd suggest the OP NOT tell any possible future employer of his labor/possible court issue. Any new employer will not want to get involved in the situation. The OP should act oblivious to any knowledge or plans with labor/court. Tell any hopeful future employer as little as possible about your past employer and situation. Deal with your problem as best you can when you have to. You will have to get your contract translated into Korean if you haven't already for the Labor Ministry.
Regardless whether the Labor Ministry says anything to you about the 11 month firings they are aware of it. What did you expect them to say..."Yeah, Korean employers like to and are know to rip off foreigners any and every chance they get by firing them illegally?" |
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