Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ppcg4]

I like where I am now (Seoul), but I am thinking of Japan for next year, just to see something different.

Has anyone done both? What are your opinions?

[Perceptioncheck]

I guess it really depends what you're after.

If you have no self control like me, Korea is much better as far as money is concerned. I'm making about the same (when taking the free apartment into consideration) but spending a hell of a lot less BUT I guess that's only because in Japan I felt a lot more inclined to go out. Yes, food can be more expensive over there but when you figure out where to eat and where to shop it can become a lot cheaper; there are dollar stores for food and plenty of cheap noodle shops. However, there are lot of expensive (and tempting) options as far as nightlife goes which can really put a dent in your pocket. Socially, I had a much much much better time in Japan than I'm having in Korea. Money-wise, I'm saving much much much more in Korea than I ever did in Japan.

There are a few good things about working in Japan as well. The main one is that your visa doesn't tie you to your workplace and if you're having a crap time it's pretty simple to switch employers. The flip side of this is that there aren't too many good jobs out there (at least there wasn't when I was looking but that was after the NOVA bust). Working hours are generally longer. I was doing 37 forty minute classes a week but there was no prep. I interviewed at a few places that wanted a six day work week but I don't know if that was because the job market was saturated and they could demand whatever they wanted. I had a few friends working in public schools (and not through the JET programme) and although they had fewer hours, they had a lot of prep/travel time and weren't paid very well.

So I think you should weigh up what you want. Personally, I would be teaching in Japan right now if it weren't for the fact that it's so easy to save money in Korea. If you do decide to go to Japan, I'd recommend Osaka as The Place To Be. Rent isn't astronomical like it is in parts of Tokyo, there are plenty of great touristy spots nearby (Kyoto, Nara) and the place just has a wicked vibe.

[ppcg4]

Wow thanks for the effort. That answered a lot of my questions.

[whatever]

Sorry, don't have the patience to go into as much detail as the previous reply, but here's my simple take. I lived in a nice part of Tokyo 3 years ago and worked for a well-known eikawa teaching mainly adults...Jeju and Daegu since then, teaching only kids...

Japan: killer public transport, kind but often boring people, excellent food, clean, fun vibe / poor pay relative to the cost of living, language is difficult to learn to read (not to speak, per se), girls wear too much makeup (sorry, don't know your gender), long work hours with a huge commute (of course, that was just my situation...)

Korea: cheap ass taxis, endlessly interesting people due to the fact that they're all mental (sorry, gf), participating in sports (skiiing, futsal, even golf) doesn't cost an arm and a leg, very compact and accessible country, savings, bbq rocks / most food is redundant, most people don't take your earnest attempts to use the language seriously, good pot very hard to find, 4 seasons...my ass, supermarkets blow, and now...the exchange rate

there's def more, just ran out of interest in thinking of it...my bad. agreed on the osaka bit. nice and centrally located. J's a lanky one!

[ManintheMiddle]

Japanese students are a lot like Korean students in terms of their overall aptitude for learning English given the relatively inadequate instruction they receive, only they seldom harbor as much resentment at having a foreign language imposed on them. Moreover, they are almost universally more polite, although they can be much lazier in some respects.

Of course, the salary you earn will not likely be comparable, but then you have to factor in the general receptivity of the people toward your presence, the greater cleanliness of the living and working spaces, and a host of other concerns.

And while I'm not a connoisseur of Japanese cuisine, it certainly has more variety.

[Tiger Beer]

I'm in Japan now after years in Korea.

Korean students seemed to have a stronger foundation in English, and were more proactive about practicing English.

But Japan is 1000 times more interesting. Older Japanese people are an absolute pleasure to be around, in comparison to older Korean people.

In Japan, you can go to ANY BAR and feel very comfortable, and Japanese people are very interesting, with interesting travel stories, musical interests, and subcultural types of interests. In Korea, I really only enjoyed expat bars, as it use to irritate me dealing with the aggressive nature of full-on Koreans in 100% all-Korean bars.

Public transportation with taxis and subways was MUCH better in Seoul...well, the prices. Sometimes just being on trains/subways in Korea can be irritating listening to people yell, do drunken things, and just being weird in general. Japan subways are very quiet and very subdued, i.e. normal, but expensive.

FOOD....I really miss and love Korean food, particularly the BBQ types outside. I don't find Japanese food as interesting personally (although many would disagree with me). I DO FIND that INTERNATIONAL FOOD in Japan is AMAZING...whereas in Korea, I hated anything that wasn't Korean. Pasta for example, always ruined in Korea, but in Japan, its to perfection. Even Korean food like kimchi fried rice tastes 1000 times better in Japan, despite the fact I was a big fan of it in Korea already.

EXPENSES: It's really beer and taxis that are expensive. If you drink some beer at home beforehand, and limit your taxi usage, etc...I really don't find other things that expensive. Particularly consumer products. There are good 100 Yen stores ($1 stores) all over the place, you can pick up everything there.

HEATING: Heating sucks in Japan, very poorly insulate, much like Korea, however NO ondol heating here in Japan. Ondol heating really makes up for the poor insulation in both countries.

If you are an American, it is interesting that most Japanese have traveled all over the U.S...usually Hawaii 5 times, California 5 times, and all kinds of obscure places throughout the U.S. Generally when you talk to Koreans, they've studied somewhere in Canada, and that is about it. You'll also be amazed how many Australians and British teach all over the place in Japan, and how few Canadians you'll meet.

[Neil]

4 years in Korea, 2.5 months in Japan for me....while I'm still in the honeymoon stage of Japanese life (gawd knows what I'll think of the place in a year) my memories of Korea are still fresh so maybe that'll help with the comparision.

Schools: Less of a hagwon scene in Japan, English conversation schools are about but less in number. Most folks I meet are ALTs (myself included) it's a strange job so far....really easy and J-Teachers seem less stressed and easy to deal with but a lot of desk sitting, have to look busy, I use my time to prep and study Japanese. With the competition for jobs and their economy going *beep* up I wouldn't want to work in the private sector, Korea might be better in that respect as it seems to be impossible for an English speaker to be unemployed for longer than 5 minutes. Probably not the case here. AFAIK you need an MA for uni work.

Students: Koreans have an obsession with English learning that supasses any other Asian country IMO. Japanese kids learn English in the same way westerners learn French/Spanish/German ect....ie it's a nice thing to learn but isn't seen as being that important. On the flip side the kids study less and have better lifestyles so you don't get the sleep derprived/pissed off with english lot that you do with Korean teens, with a qualified and usually efficent J-teacher with you at all times there's less stress with discipline.

Food: What tiger beer said.

Cash: It's not expensive compared to our countries, again Tiger Beer is right re cabs and bars but I find grocery shopping to be cheaper and rent the same (I didn't go for the free housing in Korea, thought it gave the school waaay too much power over me). I always thought buying a car in Korea was a waste of time as public transport is so cheap, in Japan it might be a decent option. Not only for cost but as a lot of Japanese live in western style houses as opposed to apartment buildings the cities are more spread out. It's something I'm considering.

Language barrier: Japan v Korea in terms of English ability really defines Quality v Quantity. Koreans study English for about 10 years, Japanese for about 5. Therefore of course there are more English speakers in Korea. However as Japanese unis are of higher quality Japanese English majors are going to be a lot better than Korean English majors. In short say 15% of Koreans speak English (guessing here) but they speak average English, in contrast maybe 3-4% of Japanese speak English but it'll be super good English.

Language: Both complex Asian tounges which will take many years to master. In Koreas favour for a newbie hangual takes a couple of days to learn and one can then read menus, bus timetables, memorise the students names from their tags ect. Most of those in Japanese are in kanji which takes ahem somewhat longer than a couple of days to learn! In Japans favour there are so many resources to learn, every bookstore even in small towns have Japanese learning sections, free classes are offered everywhere and most unis have full time JSL courses.

I love Japan and miss Korea. I feel lucky to have lived in both countries. In short Korea isn't going anywhere. If you come and Japan isn't for you, you can always head back to Korea or try some palce else. At the end of the day go for it. Don't be that 50 year old guy in the bar thinking to himself "I wonder what Japan would have been like?"

[bassexpander]

And now for the question that's been asked 5,000 times -- do you have a Japanese girlfriend, and how do they compare?

[kentucker4]

I want to go to Japan so badly. I love my Korean wife, but I finding out that she has serious emotional problems and am even scared of her after we have big arguments. She flips like a switch. I'm not sure what it would do to her to go to Japan, but I have to consider it as I feel trapped in a cage here in a low paying job.

[kiwiduncan]

What are the hiking trails like in Japan compared to Korea? I heard from one guy that the Japanese trails tend to follow the contours of the hillside rather than simply go up the ridgelines as they do in Korea. This would suggest nice mountain biking trails (not that I'd complain about Korea anyway).

[farrepatt]

I lived in northern Japan for a little more than a year and absolutely loved it. I've been in Korea for 15 months now.

Food: I like Korean food, but absolutely love Japanese food. Where I lived in Japan I didn't find it too expensive to eat out, but it definitely isn't as dirt cheap as the food is at many places in Korea. As for international food, where I lived in Japan (near Sendai), there wasn't a whole lot to choose from and it wasn't the best.

People: I found the Japanese people to be extremely warm and kind. I can't say I particularly have been treated well by Koreans in my time here. I found that in Japan I was treated well everywhere I went. People seemed interested in me and I got a lot of smiles. I got lots of attention from women my age as well. In Korea, I don't get much in the way of happy looks. My first few months here I felt that people looked more upset to see me wandering the streets than anything. I don't really feel that as much anymore, but I definitely felt much more welcome in Japan.

Language: In Japan I found that the people loved it when I tried to speak Japanese. Their happy responses made me want to learn more. In Korea, people seem much harsher on my attempts at Korean and so for the most part I've stopped trying to learn it at all. With that said, learning to read the Japanese characters (or Chinese ones) is ALOT harder than learning to read Korean.

Transportation: I strongly prefer the transportation system in Japan. Though it is much, much more expensive to use. But I could pretty much take the train anywhere in the country. It was great. I'm not a big fan of the buses and bus drivers in Korea. I loved reading on the train in Japan, but in Korea I can't read on the buses without wanting to vomit.

Cleanliness: No contest. Japan is probably the cleanest country in the world and well...Korea definitely isn't.

Students: I found my students were much higher in English level and much better behaved in Japan. But this is probably because I taught in a small academy there and in Korea I teach in a public school. Though I'd suspect that the kids in Japanese elementary schools would be better behaved than the kids I teach in Korea.

Saving Money: I saved a fair bit in Japan, though I spent a lot of my savings traveling around the country and seeing things. There was so much in Japan I wanted to see and it seemed like I went somewhere cool every weekend. In Korea, I definitely save more, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot I find exciting about the country so I stay in a lot more.

Heating: I found both Korea and Japan's heating systems to be pretty weak. Though at least my school in Japan was heated and kept the windows closed in the winter. I can't say the same about my Korean public school...

Working Hours: I definitely worked a lot more in Japan and a lot more was expected of me at my job there than it is here in a Korean public school. I frequently watch hockey games in the afternoon in my office after I've finished teaching and teach only 22 hours a week (with 40 minute classes counting as an hour). In Japan I taught about 28 hours a week and was in the school for about 9 to 10 hours a day rather than the 8 I spend here in Korea.

Overall, I absolutely loved Japan. Though I find Japanese culture extremely interesting. In my year in Korea I went back to visit Japan twice (for 10 days in the winter and 14 in the summer). I kind of wish I had gone back to Japan instead of Korea. Though when I went to Japan 5 years ago it was just for the experience, while I came to Korea with my wife to pay off student debt. If you want to save money you can do it in Japan, but it's much easier to save more in Korea (or at least it was until the won absolutely tanked). I don't regret coming to Korea because of the amount I've managed to save, but the best thing about Korea is the money. The best thing about Japan is the experience.

[kiwiduncan]

Farrepatt, thanks for the very informative post. Did you do much hiking in Japan? Have you done much in Korea? Imagine you're on a mountain bike for a moment - which trails would you prefer to ride?

[farrepatt]

Japan has a lot of hills like Korea does that are decent for hiking. Though the tops of hills in Japan were sacred spaces and so there are usually temples or shrines at the tops of many of the hills. I don't remember seeing many mountain bikers in my trips around the country.

When I climbed Mt. Fuji though I remember seeing a guy go past me with a mountain bike. Though I'm not sure that people are actually allowed to do that.

I would guess that you'd have more luck with mountain bikes in the northern part of Japan. Hokkaido would probably be great for biking. In Honshu (the main island), I'd guess Nagano prefecture and Yamagata prefecture would be pretty good as well as they have lots of large and small mountains.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[Traveller]

[ManintheMiddle]

Neil observed: