|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Your postion is really simple everything Israel does / did is bad and everything done by its enemies doesn't count.
in_seoul_2003"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Didn't Israelis enemies side with the Nazis? |
| Quote: |
Perhaps, in the context of their contempt for what Zionism was doing in Jerusalem. But what was Zionism's excuse for siding with Nazis? |
What kind of answer was that? Defending / apologizing for encouraging Hitler to carry out the holocaust?
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/bakera.htm
the Mufti was a far greater criminal , no comparison. An instigator of the holocaust who helped Hitler raise an army.
Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin's Role as an Instigator of the Shoah (Holocaust)
Moreover the Mufti wanted to holocaust to happen. Such is not the case for zionists.
| Quote: |
Did Annihilation begin in 1948? Is that what you are suggesting? |
No earlier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
Anyway Israelis enemies started a war of Annihation where all the jews of the area even the arab jews would have been expelled or killed. Thats a war crime or an attempted war crime.
| Quote: |
| Arabs? Regrettably, yes, some of them do, very badly. Have Palestinians forcibly become minorities in their own lands? |
Sure, but Israel treats Palestininan arabs who are Israeli citizens better than Israel's enemies treat the few jews left in their countires.
| Quote: |
| Didn't they persecuted their arab jews in retaliation for Israel? |
| Quote: |
| No. Enough books have discredited the way Zionism has narrated the persecution of Arab Jewry. . |
Really?
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/6/nytimes_1948_jews_in_arab.jpg
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=ef626d33-7291-4030-ba6b-e24e202904de
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands
| Quote: |
| Here is a good argument for Israel cause Bathists , Khomeni followers and Al Qaedists and all those of a similar ideological persuassion can't be trusted to protect their minorites or govern. |
| Quote: |
| This is not only unintelligible, it's religiously and geo-politically unintelligible. |
Bathists , Khomeni followers and Al Qaedists and all those of a similar ideological persuassion can't be trusted to protect their minorites or govern.
| Quote: |
| Islamic judges in Iran have set the precedent that the rape of a Mandaean woman can be regarded as an act of 'purification,' and as such, violators receive impunity. In Iran this defence has been used to acquit men of rapes on Mandaean girls as young as 8 years old (ibid.). |
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,IRBC,,IRN,,41501c2123,0.html
| Quote: |
| Zionism is a bad idea but it is a lot better than Bathism , Khomenism , Al Qaedism or Nasserism or any of the similar stuff. Those ideologies ought to be done away with. Let Israel's enemies accept liberal democracy first. |
| Quote: |
| This is why I like you - and these moments are few and far between. And why ultimately you are probably more reasonable than most people on this board even though you are still wrong (you can't understand, for example, Khomeiniism, without Zionism and vice versa). |
Oh Zionism is responsible for Khomenism?and Bathism, must be reponsible for global warming too.  Anyway let Israels enemies accept liberal democracy.
| Quote: |
If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide. (Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)
Hassan Nasrallah |
| Quote: |
| Yet everytime I go into the archives to get quotes from Zionists and American presidents I'm always accused of sensationalizing backroom chatter. |
Yeah but Nassaralah and Hizzbolllah act out on it see Argentina. In fact Hizzbolah went after the remaining jews in Lebanon during the 1980s.
By the way nothing like a few photos of Hezbollah hiding among civilians.
http://www.zchor.org/picsisrael/Terrorists_hide_in_suburbs.jpg
http://eduplanet.net/file.php/47/hasbara/a3.jpg
http://www.darleenclick.com/weblog/archives/hezbollah_beirut_200607.jpg
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:51 pm; edited 8 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Though he was MI6 instead of CIA, Crooke's background doesn't look any different than any CIA agent who worked under the elder George Bush. And I think you proved my point about Perry. Perry transforming a terrorist like Arafat into a Nobel Peace Prize winner went over about as well with crazed Muslims as Yitzhak Rabin turning from a terrorist to a Nobel Peace Prize winner went over with crazed Jews, especially the one who murdered him and those who applaud the murderer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
1. Arafat never really changed much.
2. Anyone can look at the links and get a good idea about the objectivity of the authors. Let everyone make up their own mind.
3. Israel didn't want an cease fire with Hezzbollah. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Zionism vs Hezbollah |
|
|
| in_seoul_2003 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| in_seoul_2003 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| in_seoul_2003 wrote: |
[Unlike a traditional guerrilla force, however, Hezbollah emphasized holding territory and digging in to bunkers, instead of the usual tactic of hiding among civilian populations. Likewise, the militant organization's discipline and coordination highly resembled those of conventional armies.
. |
Let's just change the bolding slightly and see how that looks...ah yes that's more like it.
Should a guerrilla force whose usual tactic is hiding among civilian populations be lauded for choosing to fight more conventionally ON ONE OCCASION? Nor have they said that they intend to fight this way from on now instead of hiding behind civilians.
I'm going to go with "No" on this one |
I could care less if you find it laudable or not, that's not the point. The point is, however, about problematizing a few misconceptions about what happened in July of 2006. That was stated clearly on the first page. Pay attention. |
No, the point is that Hezbollah is a terrorist group which have not renounced the use of civilians as human shields. Until they do, they deserve no recognizion of any kind. Period.
And the ONLY and SOLE reason they performed so well, is that Israel was holding back in order to reduce civilian causualties. Had Israel decided to go all out, Hezbollah would be in much much worse shape then it is today. Remember that after the war there was a lot of bitterness felt. not only towards Israel, but also Hezbollah for provoking it in the first place. |
Again, and for the last time, I DON"T CARE about your terrorist, your recognition, and your boys with military toys lingo.
I care about the implications of the article in relation to 2006, what happened in that war, and how it was perceived.
Take a cue from the people who wrote it and the organization which published it. At least they were able to distance themselves enough from the object of their analysis - Hezballah, whom they hold in contempt - to recognize what happaned in that war. |
And I am saying that they are out to lunch on this one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| in_seoul_2003 wrote: |
| In a thread a while back I reported that I had it on good word that... |
I recall asking you to identify your source here, even if only generally (e.g., an Israeli military officer, a journalist on the ground).
So, again, what exactly do you mean when you say "I have it on good word that...?" Because you seem to have intentionally worded this in a way that suggests you know something that the rest of us, relying on open sources, do not.
Also, Hezbollah's not emphasizing hiding among civilians in its specific tactics in this war is not the same as Hezbollah's eschewing hiding among civilians during same. And the report you cite asserts the former and not the latter. Hezbollah exploited civilians for all they could get from them, starting with their storing weapons in residential areas and hospitals. We should also not forget that they deliberately and methodically hit Israeli civilian targets. |
Yeah, but you seem to have forgotten the context in which they deliberately targetted civillian targets. Israel was 'deliberately and methodically hitting civillian targets' for some time before Hezbollah retaliated in kind. When they did so, they gave Israel forewarning and explicitly told Israel that they would desist from targetting Israel if Israel would do likewise. Fairs fair. It's exactly what you would want your military to do if another nation had started bombing your towns roads and hospitals. |
Link.
This is what I found:
| Quote: |
| Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, offered to stop bombing Israel�s �northern settlements� if the Israeli military stopped bombing Lebanon�s �cities and civilians.� He also warned that an Israeli attack on Beirut would result in Hezbollah bombing Tel Aviv. |
That's an ultimatem and at best apologetics, not a justification. HRW doesn't take Big_Bird's apologist view that one war crime justifies another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| in_seoul_2003 wrote: |
| ...the indisputable reality. |
I see no such thing, In_Seoul_2003. I leave that to N. Chomsky and others on the far left.
Rather, in this case, I see this:
(a) The government of Israel and its backers, including the American government, envision a set of relations that project a Jewish nation-state at the expense of marginalizing Palestinians from an area Arabs -- I believe, off the top of my head, it was the Umayyads -- long ago took by conquest. They aggressively asserted Islam in opposition to the preexisting Jews and Christians there, believing that their religion and imperial state superceded all others. Nevertheless, the current set of relations, because it remains exclusionary, remains a problem many of us agree we should address equitably. |
There is a problem with this analysis. You are confusing religion with ethnicity. You seem to be stating that since that since 95% of the Palestinians are Muslim and only 5% are Christian, then the actions of the majority who are Arab speaking Muslims are synonymos with the Umayyad Arabian conquerors when they are mostly an indigenous population from the region who converted to Islam over time. The Umayyads asserted the Islamic religion and the Palestinians converted to Islam. It is much like how the Bosnians went from Christians to Muslims under the dominance of the Ottoman Turks. I don't think displacing any group whether you are referring to the Jews or the Palestians of either Muslim or Christian faith makes sense.
As far as Hezbollah, they fought well in 2006. Most people in Israel know that, but the war they started in 2006 led to billions of dollars in destruction in Lebanon. Lebanon is a poor country and doesn't need such wars as the defense minister of Lebanon, Elias Murr, recently stated. Israel may have underestimated Hezbollah and didn't expect the other side to be that sophisticated. Hezbollah didn't expect Israel to retaliate so severely. Hezbollah is hiding behind Lebanon in a way by using the state for its wars. That is a big problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
