Korean Job Discussion Forums

[The Bobster]

Can you talk me out of it?

These days, Xtianity seems like such an easy target, I hesitate to start there, but I�ll state the obvious: pederast priests, evangelical Protestants who bilk the poor and become rich and then fornicate steal money and cry in public asking forgiveness of all and sundry, and well, I forgot the part where they offered to give the money back because it never happened, of course � and I could go on with whole Genesis thing about directing humans to �subdue the earth and have dominion over it� (just look around to see the problems THAT has brought us) but then I�d have to also deal with the thing about making the female half of the species slightly less human than the rest of us, due to the whole story about Eve being the instigator of Original Sin. Oh, and don�t get me started on the Crusades, the Inquisition, and even the Manifest Destiny notion in N America that led the genocide of people living there for thousands of years �

And if the question of a personal deity is really that essential, wouldn�t such a being want more than the usual payoff of an hour and a half of your life every Sunday morning, bowing and praising and singing hymns and such? Or would perhaps such an Entity be so freaking huge and cool and gnarly and boss and stuff that even such a small commitment would be unnecessary, and all we�d really need would just to be happy and productive and kind to one another, so all the labor of creation wouldn�t have been wasted energy?

I think I got angry enough to write this after watching �Schindler�s List� again this evening for the first time since it was first released. It was as much like Hollywood as most Hollywood movies are, but the very last bit of on-screen �message� is the part that got my ire: OVER 6 MILLION JEWS WERE MURDERED IN POLAND.

And the thought flashed, �Why not say �over 6 million HUMAN BEINGS were murdered in Poland?��

If there is anything evil about religion it is exactly this thing: It creates a space and a mental arena where other human beings cease to be other human beings, or are different kinds of human beings, at least in the minds of people ensnarled the religious mindset.

I recently finished reading The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins. I spent 90% of the time saying, �Yes, I�ve always felt that way, too� and the other 10% saying �Yes, but � yes, but � oh, come on, isn�t that going too far?� (To his credit, Dawkins never advocates abolishing religion, but he really just wants to convince people to change their minds about it all.)

The part of the book that sticks in my mind is when he recounts a full-page ad taken out by some atheist group in a major American newspaper. It quotes the words to the John Lennon song, �Imagine, no religion.� That�s all. Except it�s super-imposed over a skyline view of the city of New York � with the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center still there for all to see. (If you need it spelled out fore you more clearly than that, you�ve probably got a lot of other problems on your plate as well.)

Most of the time, I tell myself that even if I can�t find a way toward faith for myself, there is plenty of good that happens in the world because of it, a lot of it quiet and unspectacular, and there�s enough of that to tolerate the evil than men do in it�s name - which let�s face it, they�d find some other justification for, anyway.

But lately, I�m not really sure. Perhaps I�m losing my faith in agnosticism � you can try and convince me either way, if you want

[peppermint]

There are plenty of big ideas that were once great, but taken to a logical extreme they become absurd if not contradictory and perverse

Most religions seem to be sound ethics wrapped in fairy tales to make them palatable to the masses It's unfortunate that the emphasis seems less on the ethics and more on the fairy tales

[itaewonguy]

There is no religion! if you want it to be..
and there is religion if you want it..


Religion is a personal choice.

Religion is not in my life..
I don't go to church, I don't pray, I am not religious. BUT
I accept the possiblity of their might being a god..
so that changes my view on religions, personally I think if there is a god, primative religions are not even close to know what or who the true god is.
BUT I respect them for being dedicated in their lives and try to be good people.
I enjoy visiting churches in europe for sight seeing, I enjoy looking at renaissance art which usually is religious.
but you want catch me in a church on a sunday unless im there visiting for sightseeing

I don't see why we need a world without religion! It brings so much love to so many people.. without religion life would be miserable for those people.

people want to say religion is the cause of all wars!! hahahahahaha
what you guys seriously think without religion humans wouldnt have wars?
give me a break!

[Mint]

Monkeys are the cause of wars.
Look, I'm right there with you, religion is a lot of things to many people, and it's clear they are poor maps.

However.

Do your students wear uniforms?

I bet they also wear a necklace, or have a pencil case that is different from the rest.

Religion is only one of those categories that we use to make "us vs. them".

If it leaves there will be a power vacuum, and something more rediculous will take it's place. For the most part, religion helps certain kinds of people live meaningful lives, and I can respect that. For others, it's a tool to get what they want. If we remove this one tool, then they will simply use another: politics, economics, racial differences.

We can transcend those categories if we want, but the fact remains that we are still shit tossing primates.

Topic closed.

[Rteacher]

This one universe is so vast, and there is every indication that there are many universes. The Vedic literatures assert that the sum total of all material universes amounts to only a small fraction of the total expanse of spiritual universes.

Given such a huge playing field, I think it's likely that all fairy tales become reality somewhere.

To maintain faith in something sublime, I think it's necessary - as one of the American transcendentalist authors (either Emerson or Thoreau) put it - to "bathe your intellect" in transcendental literature every morning (or whenever practically possible).

I try to read at least one verse a day from either Bhagavad-gita or one of other essential scriptures.

There's a good selection here...
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Selected_Writings_Index.html

Here's a very comprehensive online data-base of Vedic writings...
http://vedabase.net/

Here's an interesting article on the new "Jesus in India" movie that just debuted at the Sundance Film Festival...
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/news/12-08/news2411.htm

[RACETRAITOR]

It really shouldn't affect your religious beliefs if you find that priests are molesting boys, or that the majority of Christians seem to be less moral than non-Christians. All that should really matter is whether you think there's a cloud somewhere where an old man who is binded to a long-haired hippie and a ghost is sitting and watching humanity, occasionally intervening in humanity when it suits their interests, and that this three-person being has existed as is since before the universe began. If you don't believe that, maybe Christianity isn't for you.

There are other religions, but when you take a step back and look at Odinism, ancient Greek religion, Hinduism, etc, you start to see just how arbitrary all of these religions are.

Also, don't read anything Rteacher posts. Your sanity will thank you. He only posts on here when he's not at the airport trying to give people weird literature or shaving his head so there's only a little ponytail on the back.

[RACETRAITOR]

[manlyboy]

It's very easy to denigrate a belief system based on how its most dysfunctional adherents behave. Should I reject the U.S constitution based on what the KKK says about it? Should I reject particle physics because it was used to create nuclear weapons? Read Frithjof Schuon, Sri Aurobindo, The Tao Te Ching, Kallistos Ware, Denys the Areopagite, Plotinus, Origen, et al., then come back and tell me of the evils of spirituality. It's revealing that Dawkins and his minions only seek out weak and dysfunctional believers to "prove" their theories.

[crusher_of_heads]

Merry Christmas, Bob!

[RACETRAITOR]

[mithridates]

I think the fact that modern politics is most commonly interpreted through the inane and grossly oversimplified terms left and right shows that humans do just fine dividing themselves along imaginary lines without the help of religion.

[jajdude]

I think that's a good point mith. I've never understood those terms, and I find it strange anyone would classify himself as a conservative or a liberal or whatever and think that alone has meaning. People are separate in languages, geography, economic conditions, health, age, families, behaviors, interests, beliefs, cultures, and more. There are apparently two things happening at the same time: wanting to belong and wanting to be exclusive. Religious belief allows both desires to be satisfied. Surely it's arbitrary or just by chance that one is born and caught in a particular culture, and fed all the things involved. Along with all this there is personal experience, the past, which makes me and you separate, exclusive, and prone to snobbery. I suppose the feeling of being exclusive has its pleasures, but I doubt it has anything to do with religion.

[Mint]

I didn't go to church and Jesus shook my hand.

I drank the devil under 666 tables.

I achieved nirvana and sold it for a dinosaur.

I gave birth to all the virgins in heaven.

I am the bodhi tree.

I invented money to keep you saps busy.

My blood is pure coca extract and people think my baby teeth are pyramids.

[ED209]

[Mint]