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104 Koreans are held for illegal bear hunts
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Hyalucent



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would SOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo love to introduce these people to the expression, "Some days you eat the bear; some days the bear eats you."
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tsgarp



Joined: 01 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogbert, are your feelings hurt? You should be upset that people are engaged in this kind of illegal activity period but these people are criminals and would probably be doing something wrong anyway. Your outrage that it's being perpetrated by Koreans seems to be overly emotional.
hyalucent, Bear gall bladders and bile is used to treat convulsion during high fevers, delirium from extensive burns, hot skin lesions, redness and swelling of the eyes and traumatic injuries. It has nothing to do with penile dysfunction. Whether it works or not is another story. You need to learn a little about Oriental medicine before you go showing off your ignorance.
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shawner88



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My students told me deer antlers are extremely valuable here for making medicine, but it's illegal to export them from the US.
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Hyalucent



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: British North America

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tsgarp wrote:
You need to learn a little about Oriental medicine before you go showing off your ignorance.


Yeah, about as much as I need to know how to grow corn on the ocean floor.

Anyway, thank you for your information. You're right. I didn't know.
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tsgarp wrote:
dogbert, are your feelings hurt? You should be upset that people are engaged in this kind of illegal activity period but these people are criminals and would probably be doing something wrong anyway. Your outrage that it's being perpetrated by Koreans seems to be overly emotional.


I'm saddened rather than hurt.

I am upset that Koreans, Chinese, Americans, and whoever else are involved in this sort of illegal activity, but I think it also noteworthy that Koreans are involved, yes.


tsgarp wrote:
hyalucent, Bear gall bladders and bile is used to treat convulsion during high fevers, delirium from extensive burns, hot skin lesions, redness and swelling of the eyes and traumatic injuries. It has nothing to do with penile dysfunction. Whether it works or not is another story. You need to learn a little about Oriental medicine before you go showing off your ignorance.


Oh yes, we're ignorant and you're not.

Lots of us ignorant about:

"QU�BEC WILDLIFE PROTECTION OFFICERS DISMANTLE POACHING NETWORK: CLOSE TO 100 PEOPLE INVOLVED

Qu�bec City, November 20, 2002�Following a major investigation, some 200 Qu�bec wildlife protection officers moved today to dismantle a network of poachers involved in trafficking black bear gall bladders and big game meat. The gall bladders were destined primarily for buyers in various Canadian provinces, in the United States, and in Asian countries like South Korea, Vietnam, and Thailand.

Black bear gall bladders are highly sought after by Canadians, Americans, and foreigners of Asian origin for their purported medicinal and aphrodisiac properties. The gall bladders, which usually weigh between 20 and 30 grams, are sold on the Qu�bec market for $5 to $8 a gram, making for an average value of over $150 in Qu�bec. Their value is undoubtedly higher at their final point of sale, once they have been processed or added as an ingredient to consumer products. According to our information, runners for the network carried the gall bladders to predetermined locations for resale."

Societe de la faune et des parcs Quebec

"Regulated sport hunting is not a threat to the black bear population but there is a major problem with illegal hunting. Many black bears are killed by poachers for a variety of parts including the teeth, claws, and especially the gall bladder which is sought after as an aphrodisiac."

Western North Carolina Nature Center

"Bear gallbladders are prized in many Asian countries for their medicinal and aphrodisiac qualities. In countries such as South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and China, bear gallbladders sell for astronomical prices and are often considered more valuable than gold. Because bear parts commanded high prices in Asia, this demand diminished the bear populations with the rise in incomes there. With the decline in Asian bear populations, Asian merchants came to North America to procure gall bladders of the North American black bear. Reports indicate that an increasing quantity of bear gallbladder used in such medicines and aphrodisiacs are originating in the United States. . .."

The Mandala Projects, American University

I think it is relevant that Asians (including Koreans) and Asian-Americans are involved in the poaching of U.S. and Canadian wildlife, since it is Asians that create the demand through their belief that bear gall bladders have great value as an aphrodisiac in addition to whatever medicinal value they are believed to have in TCM.

Why are you so invested in rationlizing this illegal activity?
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hellofaniceguy



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are forgetting the number one reason for these senseless killings; koreans and other Asian men seem to thing that the parts of these certain animals are aphrodisiacs. It has to do with staying hard. Using these animal parts for medicine? Very few women use these animal parts. It's not about 100% medicine use. Until koreans and others wake up and learn some techniques and realize that it's not the animals, it won't stop. If the animal parts made for better lovers, hell, every man in the world would be bear hunting! And then beaver hunting!
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that the problem of Korean impotence/ erectile dysfunction could probably be solved by less smoking, less drinking, less work, more exercise, and better man to woman relationships all round. But back to bears....
TSgarp: I agree that bear farming is an incredibly inhumane kind of exploitation...but looking realistically, its unlikely to stop in asia anytime this century. And its a better option than poachers killing the last remaining wild stock.
As a conservationist I believe you have to forget moral issues to some degree and just work with the reality of the situation as far as you can... Of course, ideally, I'd prefer that bear farming didn't exist and the poverty- stricken masses looked after bears and their habitat purely for the joy of doing so. But Asians look upon animals as either food, cash cows, or vermin to be pushed out of the way.
Its a sad fact that most wildlife is viewed as a waste of space- unless someone can make money from it. In order to secure the future of wildlife on the whole, it has to pay for itself.
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Chonbuk



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tsgarp-
Quote:


Hi, like your name- loved Your World--

Okay- so, in fact I did grow up in a hunting family and have been around deer my whole life, and yes you are right that the antlers do fall off at the end of a season- winter. However the antlers that the Koreans use for their medicine are not the ones that have fallen off, the ones that they prefer to use are the blood-engorged ones with a velveteen-like appearance (In North America we can see this in late spring) They believe this to be the most helpful. I wish they would use the ones that fall off though.

I think that Rapier made a good point also, that if the drinking, smoking and little exercise were improved the need for stimulants would also go down--- hahhah--

The deer farms are all over the country- there is one in Nonsan outside of Daejeon-


The bear farms were in Vietnam, China and South Korea- I too was shocked-


cheers,

Chonbuk-


Anybody else eating less meat these days???



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