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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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 Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Cedar, where do you get the "Korean Parents don't disciplne their kids" stuff? I hear kids getting whacked and wailing all over my neighborhood. Teacher making house calls?
I was in a small village once and I saw a couple of 15 year old boys who were caught smoking by an old grandfather and he was railing at them waving his cane and the boys looked like they were gonna shat their pants. Then he gave each one a smack on the hands and walked off. The boys just kind of shuffled along ten feet behind him, not a word.
For my part, I remember "in my day" when the teacher used to brandish a fearsome "board of education" as it was so inscribed. We lived in fear of it and never screwed around if she so much as made a flinch in its direction. Boys being boys, we still screwed around and a lot of us got whacked but the next year when they abolished corporal punishment there was a lot less discipline in the classroom for sure. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| I was not resigned to a second year at the high school I was at some years back; I stepped in between a male teacher and the female student he was slapping across the face and slapped him across the face and told him to never hit another woman again. He put his tail between his legs and sat down in the teachers room. What was unexpected was the support I got from the other teachers! And the students. But not enough support to get a second year. |
See that is the thing: some teachers make corporal punishment a bad thing. Whacking students in the face or head is abuse IMO.
I believe a physical punishment that is given FOR THE BENEFIT of the student: NOT because the teacher is angry, is sometimes a good thing.
I never stepped between a teacher and a student who was getting hit. It only seemed to happen my first year at my highschool. Who am I to put MY views on Korean teachers who are working 12-16 hours a day.
I still stick by what I said. I would rather have discipline in the schools...even if that means only the headmaster does the hitting. The problems of today's schools back home is a lack of discipline. Even parents don't do their duty. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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When a teachers or anyone starts using violence to get THEIR point or opinion across, it's time for that person to find a new line of work. Just because violence was used on you when you were a kid does not make it right to pass it along. Smacking does not work. Other forms of discipline are available. Not in the classroom however. What example does smacking a student across the face prove? Or hitting a student on top of the head with a few books do? No, I disagree with physical punishment. Just me though. Violence? Go to war and "do violence like many do."
Last edited by hellofaniceguy on Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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KangnamDragon wrote:
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At least Korean high school students are more polite and don't shoot their schoolmates and teachers. There are few drugs and crimes committed in Korean schools too. Maybe some American students need a few whacks!
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Yeah, Puff. I'm sure the kids at Columbine would've been deterred by corporal punishment. "Hmm. I was planning to walk into school today and gun down my classmates, but then I remembered I might get the strap".
As for drugs, if the kids are smoking pot or sniffing coke, I think that's a police matter anyway. Even if you did institute the strap for drug abuse, do you think the dealers and users wouldn't just take their act over to the local street corner? |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| When a teachers or anyone starts using violence to get THEIR point or opinion across, it's time for that person to find a new line of work. Just because violence was used on you when you were a kid does not make it right to pass it along. Smacking does not work. Other forms of discipline are available. Not in the classroom however. What example does smacking a student across the face prove? Or hitting a student on top of the head with a few books do? No, I disagree with physical punishment. Just me though. Violence? Go to war and "do violence like many do." |
Would making kids run laps around the track or clean the school or do push ups or duck squats consititute as violence?
I fit these types of things into the sphere of corporal punishment.
I think people are of the mind it is beating the kid, so you shouldn't do it. Slapping ones hands with a stick isn't my idea of beating someone. Watch Chingu (Friend) what the teacher does in that movie is definately a beating.
| On the other hand wrote: |
KangnamDragon wrote:
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At least Korean high school students are more polite and don't shoot their schoolmates and teachers. There are few drugs and crimes committed in Korean schools too. Maybe some American students need a few whacks!
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Yeah, Puff. I'm sure the kids at Columbine would've been deterred by corporal punishment. "Hmm. I was planning to walk into school today and gun down my classmates, but then I remembered I might get the strap".
As for drugs, if the kids are smoking pot or sniffing coke, I think that's a police matter anyway. Even if you did institute the strap for drug abuse, do you think the dealers and users wouldn't just take their act over to the local street corner? |
I think the point is, if kids have DISCIPLINE in their lives BEFORE hand, they won't even think about gunning down their peers and teachers. This can be said for reducing drug use too.
A good case study is military type schools in the USA where corporal punishment is allowed and public school systems where it is not allowed. One system has discipline, the other doesnt. Which system do you think has more drug users and problem children?
I think this topic is kind of like discussing religion. Everyone has their own beliefs. Who is to say what is truly right or wrong? |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| As I posted, physical violence should not be tolerated. Running laps, standing in the corner, hands up in the air holding something heavy, etc. is acceptable forms of punishment. Not smacking, hitting or beating. |
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yoda
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| What amazes me is how many of our students who have come out of the army or have finished high school say they are for the system of corporal punishment. Most are in favor in spite of the tremendous beatings that the recount in class. |
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scarneck
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Whatever punishment is imposed, just don't "take the cane to my ass" 
Corporal punishment works, in fact, I think he should be promoted to SGT Punishment.
Correct: Don't beat out of anger, but if you aren't pissed off, why beat them? The punishment should be porportional. I had an nun tear me up because I made fun of her being pregnant! ( I was in the 2nd grade) I WASN'T EVEN CATHOLIC!! I was bussed there...
I'm sure it's quite hard for you all when it comes to disipline, because you may not always get the support needed. After all, you know what works and what doesn't. I'm sure some good ol fashion humiliation goes a long way. The pain will go away after it stops hurting.
I grew up in Michigan, and CPL punishiment was alive and well. I got hit in the back of the head once because I stood up too soon (waiting bent over) and the teacher missed my ass and nailed my head on the up swing...  Served me right, I was acting like a Sh*t heel anyway....The school my kids go to now won't use corporal punishment. I have to admit, I wouldn't mind it, as long as there were clear guidelines as to when it's used, and it should be supervised or witnessed by an official....times have changed. My boyz know, if the school ever calls me about something they've done wrong...they better make right with Jesus....
Korean kids: I have some nephews, two are great, they do well in school and are very polite and respectful.....one reason is that their Dad will explain first, then if they fail to heed the warning....here comes a beatdown...nothing major, just enough to let them know there's more where that came from....the others, they are younger, but spoiled rotten. It took only one time for the little B*stard to pinch me...he now knows what will be tolerated and what won't.. He's turning into a great little human.
Best of luck to you all. |
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Skarp
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Violence is fundamentally wrong and an abuse of human rights.
Even hitting your own kids is basically wrong and you shouldn't do it.
It is neither necessary nor effective and it is dangerous and can lead to a cycle of violence at a later stage in life.
Having said that - I often joke about hitting students in my classes but I have never inflicted pain on a student and I never will.
Because of the systematic abuse of human rights in the Korean school and military system I am looking again at my joking around - it could be stirring up memories of abuse that I don't want to surface in my classroom.
Just a final point - all violence except in self defence or in defence of another person is wrong. So is humiliating or degrading someone.
It can be annoying and frustrating dealing with discipline problems and I am not cut out for teaching kids for this reason mainly.
Skarp |
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Crois
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: You could be next so watch out.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I was flicking through the TV channels last night and on OCN there happened to be some porn. The usual soft core stuff where you see them having sex and then it cuts to the guy at work on the phone for a bit.
Anyway there was the girl walking away from the man for some odd reason and then he decides to jump her. Anyway her starts to try and rape her. Thats what it seemed like, but she wasnt making much of an effort and she seemeed to enjoy it. All you saw was him on top of her man handling her breasts which i think were fake because they were pretty big.
She then decides to hit him with her shoe. This gets him off her and she then starts to attack the man who now seems defenceless. Yeah maybe they like to get hit or something. |
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steroidmaximus
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Even hitting your own kids is basically wrong and you shouldn't do it. |
wow, thanks for telling me how I should raise my kid!
Were you ever smacked as a kid? Well I was, and I do think it's necessary at times. If you tell your kid: "don't touch the stove, it's hot", they won't listen, and only after they've burned themselves will they get it. You can talk and reason as much as possible with a child, and while sometimes that gets through, other times you just have to spank em.
Non-violent forms of punishment are necessary, but sometimes you just gotta give em a swift hard whack to the ass. |
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steroidmaximus
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah maybe they like to get hit or something |
hey, nice sampling methods you have there for determining statistics, and I love how you were able to extrapolate a generalized rule from it. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Skarp wrote: |
Violence is fundamentally wrong and an abuse of human rights.
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What exactly is a "human right" and just because a few countries make laws giving people rights, does that mean everyone should have those rights?
human rights is what has led the PC police to shove their beliefs down everyone's throats.
I think parents and teachers have rights. You are going to find, by taking these rights away over time, no one is going to go into teaching, and people are going to start having less kids. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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"Spare the rod -- spoil the child..."
Do we really think that we are so much more enlightened and loving than the previous generations that made us??
Spank when needed. |
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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Russian proverb: A child is not a jug. He will not break if you hit him.
Old piece of English doggerel: Women, children, dogs, and trees. The more you beat them the better they be. don't get your feminist hackles up at me ladies I don't agree with the first part or the dog part but as for the rest, well... |
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