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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: Is there an Israeli embassy In Seoul? |
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I am wondering if there are any protests planned, although I guess it goes against my visa regulations to put up a stink about anything of a political nature, anyway.
They're murdering hundreds. One third or so are civilians.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801662.stm |
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clyde
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Actually they are defending themselves against criminal rabble. Let's not forget that the force that they are using is democratically sanctioned, and not based upon the whims of unemployed barbarians. Either inform yourself better or at least admit that you had a German Grandfather or something. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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I think your remarks speak for themself without further comment from me, regardelss of what my heritage is.
| clyde wrote: |
| Actually they are defending themselves against criminal rabble. Let's not forget that the force that they are using is democratically sanctioned, and not based upon the whims of unemployed barbarians. Either inform yourself better or at least admit that you had a German Grandfather or something. |
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oldtactics
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: |
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I recall there's something in my visa regulations about being prohibited from political activities. Did you see any foreigners protersting in September?
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry to say, but Hamas had it coming. Israel also seems to have done quite a good job of minimizing civilian casualties while still managing to kill scores of those scumbags who hide themselves amongst the general population. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Righto.
Approximately 1/3 third of those 'scumbags' are women and children. Most of the rest were police. Police are the folks who direct traffic and other civic functions. No mention anywhere, on even the most hawkish websites, saying they were militants. They were cops. They targeted police stations.
So does anybody know what the specifics are on foreigners attending peaceful protests?
| caniff wrote: |
| Sorry to say, but Hamas had it coming. Israel also seems to have done quite a good job of minimizing civilian casualties while still managing to kill scores of those scumbags who hide themselves amongst the general population. |
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Gamecock
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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As someone who lived in the West Bank for 2 years working for an aid organization in Palestinian refugee camps, I have a pretty realistic feel for the situation there (as opposed to the propaganda thrown around by both sides and the way things are slanted by the American media). Here's my take...
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| Sorry to say, but Hamas had it coming. Israel also seems to have done quite a good job of minimizing civilian casualties while still managing to kill scores of those scumbags who hide themselves amongst the general population. |
Realistically, Hamas probably does have it coming to them, as long as they continue to support suicide bombings, etc. On the flip side, Israel has also kept the circle of violence going by not doing their part to rein in/arrest (and many times even encourage) extreme settler groups who are living illegally in the West Bank and Gaza and violently provoking their neighbors.
And no, Israel is NOT good at minimizing civilian casualties. That is propaganda. They don't conduct police actions based on intelligence to apprehend criminals/terrorists. They use the army, helicopters, missiles, etc. and there is almost ALWAYS more innocent victims than there needs to be. I have seen this firsthand. Such actions may kill a few terrorists, but they create many more.
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| Most of the rest were police. Police are the folks who direct traffic and other civic functions. No mention anywhere, on even the most hawkish websites, saying they were militants. They were cops. They targeted police stations. |
This would be true if the situation in the Palestinian territories was anything like a normal country. But it's not. The police are the Hamas militants. I remember in 1997 in Bethlehem when the Palestinian police were first allowed to have arms to "police themselves." Within hours, they had opened fire on the IDF checkpoint outside of town. I remember well, because i got caught in the crossfire. Hamas chooses their loyal men to be policemen because they are able to be legally armed. So they really are not civil servants. This is a well-known fact by anyone familiar with the situation up-close.
The Israel-Palestinian situation is a quagmire, and a very sad one. I have both Palestinian and Jewish friends. If you talk to the man on the street, about 80% of the population on both sides would simply like to live in peace with each other, and would be very happy to do so. It is a small minority of extremists on BOTH sides that keep the cycle of violence turning. Blood begets blood. Neither side is righteous. They have both done their fair share of evil. |
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clyde
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I have studied in Israel myself and know a thing or two about life there. The people that fire rockets into Israel are the people who cannot get into university and are too lazy to work for respect and success. Most Palestinian people are resourceful, peaceful and warm-hearted, I know this firsthand. The problem is that they vote stupidly. I'm sorry but there are repercussions to firing arbitrary artillery into another country. Use your police to stop the idiots from letting off rockets, and then maybe Israel won't punish you. Protesting at an embassey is not only reactionary but dangerous, because let's face there is no Palestinian embassy to protest when they behave like idiots. Not that any CNN junky like yourself, Trevor, would ever bother anyway. "Things will improve here when the Palestinian people start loving their children more than they hate us" Golda Meir |
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Lostone7
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Gamecock wrote: |
As someone who lived in the West Bank for 2 years working for an aid organization in Palestinian refugee camps, I have a pretty realistic feel for the situation there (as opposed to the propaganda thrown around by both sides and the way things are slanted by the American media). Here's my take...
| Quote: |
| Sorry to say, but Hamas had it coming. Israel also seems to have done quite a good job of minimizing civilian casualties while still managing to kill scores of those scumbags who hide themselves amongst the general population. |
Realistically, Hamas probably does have it coming to them, as long as they continue to support suicide bombings, etc. On the flip side, Israel has also kept the circle of violence going by not doing their part to rein in/arrest (and many times even encourage) extreme settler groups who are living illegally in the West Bank and Gaza and violently provoking their neighbors.
And no, Israel is NOT good at minimizing civilian casualties. That is propaganda. They don't conduct police actions based on intelligence to apprehend criminals/terrorists. They use the army, helicopters, missiles, etc. and there is almost ALWAYS more innocent victims than there needs to be. I have seen this firsthand. Such actions may kill a few terrorists, but they create many more.
| Quote: |
| Most of the rest were police. Police are the folks who direct traffic and other civic functions. No mention anywhere, on even the most hawkish websites, saying they were militants. They were cops. They targeted police stations. |
This would be true if the situation in the Palestinian territories was anything like a normal country. But it's not. The police are the Hamas militants. I remember in 1997 in Bethlehem when the Palestinian police were first allowed to have arms to "police themselves." Within hours, they had opened fire on the IDF checkpoint outside of town. I remember well, because i got caught in the crossfire. Hamas chooses their loyal men to be policemen because they are able to be legally armed. So they really are not civil servants. This is a well-known fact by anyone familiar with the situation up-close.
The Israel-Palestinian situation is a quagmire, and a very sad one. I have both Palestinian and Jewish friends. If you talk to the man on the street, about 80% of the population on both sides would simply like to live in peace with each other, and would be very happy to do so. It is a small minority of extremists on BOTH sides that keep the cycle of violence turning. Blood begets blood. Neither side is righteous. They have both done their fair share of evil. |
Very well written!! And SHOWS you actually have been to the Middle East.
Kudos to you.
Only one thing to add though.........in the past 3years Israel has indeed started forcibly removing the zealot settlements and have taken a lot of flack for it by the right wing guys.
Also, remember when you say Israel it�s not just a Jewish thing. There are Many many ethnic groups and 14 recognized religions and a very large Arab population as well. |
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Thwartley
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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A sad, sick situation.
The Palestinian civilians are suffering while the Hamas freaks and hard right wing Israeli freaks are both thrilled at this turn of events. |
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the ireland
Joined: 11 May 2008
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| clyde wrote: |
| Actually they are defending themselves against criminal rabble. Let's not forget that the force that they are using is democratically sanctioned, and not based upon the whims of unemployed barbarians. Either inform yourself better or at least admit that you had a German Grandfather or something. |
who cares what his/her heritage.
People are allowed to have their own opinions and beliefs. some people believe that Isreal is not a state to be recognised as it was taken from the palistinians and given to Jewish people as a bit of a 'thank you' and a place to call home. which was accepted )kind of at first but then they took advantage and started to take arab land from palistine that wasn't theirs.
then you have the jewish people's belief (and probably the English belief too, they know a thing or two about stealing land  )...........
but seriously, either way, an arguement on dave's is hardly going to solve it. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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My first question would be:
Did the OP protest against Hamas when they broke the cease fire and fired rockets into Israel?
If you did then you are not a hypocrite. |
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Thwartley
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Jandar wrote: |
My first question would be:
Did the OP protest against Hamas when they broke the cease fire and fired rockets into Israel?
If you did then you are not a hypocrite. |
Most people base their outrage on the degree of attack/attrocity etc.
It's not hypocritical to only protest the Israeli attacks.
It's completely rational and reasonable to claim that Israel has gone way overboard, together with also condemning Hamas or not condemning Hamas. |
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nate2008
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jandar wrote: |
My first question would be:
Did the OP protest against Hamas when they broke the cease fire and fired rockets into Israel?
If you did then you are not a hypocrite. |
This has nothing to do with anything. Many governments around the world (and not just Arab ones) are protesting against Israel only, and they are doing it for 1 reason: disproportionate use of force.
Hamas fired a few rockets and Israel responds with days of air strikes. I'm not trying to say firing rockets into a country is not a big deal, because it is, but that's like somebody throwing a rock at a police officer and the police officer responds by pulling out a bazooka.
Israel is trying to send a message, but they are doing it brutally. |
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