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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Remember something:
Israel's supporters are delighted to be placed on an equal footing with the Palestinians, morally. They do not feel it necessary to be deemed morally superior in the current, or any past conflict. Just morally equal. The reason is quite simple:
Since they are more powerful, they do not need to win the argument in order to win the argument.
All they need is a draw. Then, if some schmuck lobs a few homemade rockets into the corn fields, they can retaliate by killing hundreds (thousands?) and then do what they were inevitably going to do anyway: grab more land, only faster. You say they don't want the land? Simply not true, as history has clearly and irrefutably shown. They have acquisitioned an incredible amount of land that they say they don't want and it is being settled by the most obnoxious people imaginable. For anyone interested in supporting human rights DON'T FALL INTO THE TRAP OF GRANTING ISRAEL MORAL EQUALITY. That's all they need to keep on behaving the way they have. IT SIMPLY JUSTIFIES THEIR LAND GRAB.
There is nothing morally equivalent about what they have done in the past 72 hours. They are a nuclear power fighting homemade rockets and slingshots.
Last edited by Trevor on Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:31 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Jandar wrote: |
My first question would be:
Did the OP protest against Hamas when they broke the cease fire and fired rockets into Israel?
If you did then you are not a hypocrite. |
Correction, it was Israel who broke the ceasefire on the 4th of November, while requesting Egypt to hold Hamas to the ceasefire. Even in Israel this is acknowledged. Where are you getting your information from?
Secondly, those rockets (at least until after Israel's latest attack) didn't kill or seriously injure even 1 person, never mind 290 (or whatever the toll is now). Most of those rockets ended up in open fields, in protest rather than as a deliberate attempt to kill Israelis. This is not in anyway equivalent to what Israel has done, killing scores of women and innocent children, and ensuring many more will carry scars or permanent disabilities for the rest of their lives (very sad in the case of kids). Go to your dictionary and look up the word proportionate. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Trevor anxiously wondered:
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I am wondering if there are any protests planned, although I guess it goes against my visa regulations to put up a stink about anything of a political nature, anyway.
They're murdering hundreds. One third or so are civilians. |
Gee, Trev, looks like the slanted BBC News has finally had its desired effect. I have been viewing it and Al-Jazeera, along with CNN International and Fox News since the Israeli campaign began and the BBC is actually as biased in favor of the Palestinians as Al-Jazeera.
I suppose it's immaterial to you that Hamas broke the ceasefire and has been lobbing rockets into Israel ever since coming to power? Thank Yahweh that there missiles aren't more accurately aimed, although there have been Israeli casualties.
CNN International interviewed a Hamas spokesman today, Diana Bhutta, who insisted Israel was using the rocket attacks as a pretext to rid the Gaza Strip of Hamas. If this were indeed the case, why wait three years to get the job done?
CNN later reported that most of the casualties are in fact from Hamas. In an area as crowded as Gaza there will unfortunately be collateral damage, which means civilian deaths and injuries.
Of course, she had nothing to say about Iranian and Syrian smuggled weapons into Gaza or the rocket attacks or the broken ceasefire. Neither evidently do you.
So you'll have to forgive me if I don't share you same sense of outrage. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| the ireland wrote: |
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People are allowed to have their own opinions and beliefs. some people believe that Isreal is not a state to be recognised as it was taken from the palistinians and given to Jewish people as a bit of a 'thank you' and a place to call home. which was accepted )kind of at first but then they took advantage and started to take arab land from palistine that wasn't theirs.
then you have the jewish people's belief (and probably the English belief too, they know a thing or two about stealing land  )...........
but seriously, either way, an arguement on dave's is hardly going to solve it. |
Yes, people are allowed to have their own opinions and beliefs...but when it goes against history, then said people should be educated. Such as this sentence in your post "...but then they took advantage and started to take arab land from palistine that wasn't theirs"
This is nonsense. Israel never took over any land until they were attacked. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I am delighted that weapons were smuggled into the west bank and I hope the Syrians and Iranians help them more. I do not consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization. I consider them to be a legitimately elected government struggling against a vicious occupying force that they are resisting in a completely justified manner, considering the assymmetry of the power distribution, and the repulsive manner that Israel has conducted itself since 1967.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Trevor anxiously wondered:
| Quote: |
I am wondering if there are any protests planned, although I guess it goes against my visa regulations to put up a stink about anything of a political nature, anyway.
They're murdering hundreds. One third or so are civilians. |
Gee, Trev, looks like the slanted BBC News has finally had its desired effect. I have been viewing it and Al-Jazeera, along with CNN International and Fox News since the Israeli campaign began and the BBC is actually as biased in favor of the Palestinians as Al-Jazeera.
I suppose it's immaterial to you that Hamas broke the ceasefire and has been lobbing rockets into Israel ever since coming to power? Thank Yahweh that there missiles aren't more accurately aimed, although there have been Israeli casualties.
CNN International interviewed a Hamas spokesman today, Diana Bhutta, who insisted Israel was using the rocket attacks as a pretext to rid the Gaza Strip of Hamas. If this were indeed the case, why wait three years to get the job done?
CNN later reported that most of the casualties are in fact from Hamas. In an area as crowded as Gaza there will unfortunately be collateral damage, which means civilian deaths and injuries.
Of course, she had nothing to say about Iranian and Syrian smuggled weapons into Gaza or the rocket attacks or the broken ceasefire. Neither evidently do you.
So you'll have to forgive me if I don't share you same sense of outrage. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Trevor spewed:
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| I do not consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization. I consider them to be a legitimately elected government struggling against a vicious occupying force |
Uh-huh.
Israel hasn't been an "occupying force" in Gaza for some time yet the attacks continue unabated.
Keep smokin' that crack. Better yet, join the cause! Move to Gaza and join forces with the righteous brothers of Hamas! You, too, can be a Resistance Fighter! |
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sportsguy35
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor must be either 1.) an Arab from the middle east and if so, we can't blame him for having this retarted view of Israel 2.) a huge sock |
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DCJames
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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The Israelis bombed two universities in Gaza.
How the hell are universities Hamas targets??
Israel is using the world's Holocaust guilt to it's fullest advantage. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Nope, I'm a pudgy white guy from Boise, Idaho.
Never took the short bus, either. 
| sportsguy35 wrote: |
| Trevor must be either 1.) an Arab from the middle east and if so, we can't blame him for having this retarted view of Israel 2.) a huge sock |
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sportsguy35
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
Nope, I'm a pudgy white guy from Boise, Idaho.
Never took the short bus, either.
| sportsguy35 wrote: |
| Trevor must be either 1.) an Arab from the middle east and if so, we can't blame him for having this retarted view of Israel 2.) a huge sock |
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answers my question then. You are a sock |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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I guess it depends on your definition of occupation. Are they free to travel as they please? Go visit their mom in the West Bank when they please? Pursue economic opportunities that are open to the rest of the Arab world? Seek decent medical care? Nope? Well, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....
As to being a resistance fighter, I must admit to an attraction to that idea. I would definitely like to help them in some way, though by law I cannot. Any ideas?
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Trevor spewed:
| Quote: |
| I do not consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization. I consider them to be a legitimately elected government struggling against a vicious occupying force |
Uh-huh.
Israel hasn't been an "occupying force" in Gaza for some time yet the attacks continue unabated.
Keep smokin' that crack. Better yet, join the cause! Move to Gaza and join forces with the righteous brothers of Hamas! You, too, can be a Resistance Fighter! |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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What's a sock?
| sportsguy35 wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
Nope, I'm a pudgy white guy from Boise, Idaho.
Never took the short bus, either.
| sportsguy35 wrote: |
| Trevor must be either 1.) an Arab from the middle east and if so, we can't blame him for having this retarted view of Israel 2.) a huge sock |
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answers my question then. You are a sock |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Short for sock-puppet, I believe. It's a second identity adopted by a poster on a message board. Like, for example, if someone wants to make it look like there is a lot of support for his opinion, he might open up a second account under a different name, and then post stuff agreeing with what he wrote under his original name. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Oh, that's what a sock is...
Well, I gotta hand it to Sportsguy35. He got me. Here I thought no one would know that all these posters are really me and he went and figured me out. When I'm whipped, I'm whipped. How'da guy that smart ever get onto a board like this?
Yessir, I know when I'm whipped and I'm whipped....How'd that Sportsguy get so smart? 
| On the other hand wrote: |
Short for sock-puppet, I believe. It's a second identity adopted by a poster on a message board. Like, for example, if someone wants to make it look like there is a lot of support for his opinion, he might open up a second account under a different name, and then post stuff agreeing with what he wrote under his original name. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Jandar wrote: |
My first question would be:
Did the OP protest against Hamas when they broke the cease fire and fired rockets into Israel?
If you did then you are not a hypocrite. |
Correction, it was Israel who broke the ceasefire on the 4th of November, while requesting Egypt to hold Hamas to the ceasefire. Even in Israel this is acknowledged. Where are you getting your information from?
Secondly, those rockets (at least until after Israel's latest attack) didn't kill or seriously injure even 1 person, never mind 290 (or whatever the toll is now). Most of those rockets ended up in open fields, in protest rather than as a deliberate attempt to kill Israelis. This is not in anyway equivalent to what Israel has done, killing scores of women and innocent children, and ensuring many more will carry scars or permanent disabilities for the rest of their lives (very sad in the case of kids). Go to your dictionary and look up the word proportionate. |
Hamas is gaining they got another one score 300-2.
When you know your ass is grass watch out for the lawnmower.
Who killed King Abdullah I? The Palestinians.
This is how the Palestinians treat their friends.
"They've killed me. Murderers, they believe only in fire and destruction."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
Following Black September, Yassar Arafat's next move was to start a civil war in Lebanon.
Ladies and Gentlemen the Palestinians are the self oppressed.
Again as guests in Lebanon the Palestinians engaged in Genocide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre
"The attackers destroyed the buildings in the seaside village systematically and then took revenge on the remaining Christian inhabitants. The Christian cemetery was destroyed, coffins dug up, the dead robbed, vaults opened, and bodies and skeletons thrown across the graveyard. The church was burnt and an outside wall was covered with a mural of Fatah guerrillas holding AK47 rifles. A portrait of Yasser Arafat was placed at one end."
"Twenty Phalangist militiamen were executed and then civilians were lined up against a wall and sprayed with machine-gun fire. None of the remaining inhabitants survived.[2] Estimates of the civilian dead range from up to 582."
There is no such thing as response in kind. |
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