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hugekebab
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Beeyee wrote: |
| hugekebab wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| It takes a special kind of tourist to journey to the most isolated and totalitarian nation on Earth. Not for everyone but hardly anyone from the west has been inside. I've thought about it for the experience but my money would probably be better spent in some place beautiful. |
Special? Special needs more like.
How is it a big deal to pay over the odds for an organised tour to the most oppressive regime on Earth; that doesn't make you an adventurer, it makes you a mug and just like the thousands of mindless nobbers who pay 4 million won for organised K tours to Phuket. |
I respectfully disagree.
Experiencing a place so different from anywhere else on Earth appeals to me a lot. Gloablization has caused much of the world to become so similar. I am in Daejeon now but really, I could be in any city in the world. Pyongyang has a uniqueness that I find intriguing. If you don't 'get that', then fine but to say that those who want to experience it are mugs is out of order. |
I'm not looking for a personal argument at all, but my view:
Funding fascism is out of order I'm afraid. Would you have done a weeks trip to Nazi Germany in 1950? Maybe take a tour of Buchenwald? Maybe take a tour of Stalin's gulags? And yes, you can quite reasonably compare NK with Hitler's Germany; it's not an idle comparative. You'll be stuffing your face with food and people not far from you will be literally starving. Further North, people will be being shot or dying of hypothermia desperately trying to get out of the place and cross the border to China. You are funding the armament of the state and the rape and suppression of its people.
I understand your curiosity, I share it, however don't you feel that you're on morally very shaky ground?
If you do go, stay within the cordons or they will shoot you and kill you. Charming.
Look, my main point is very simple. If I were locked up in a cage in abject misery I wouldn't appreciate 'curious' and 'fascinated' people from the more wonderfully luxurious countries on Earth funding the zoo I'm stuck in and gawking at me to satisfy their deep, meaningful urges. |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| hugekebab wrote: |
| Beeyee wrote: |
| hugekebab wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| It takes a special kind of tourist to journey to the most isolated and totalitarian nation on Earth. Not for everyone but hardly anyone from the west has been inside. I've thought about it for the experience but my money would probably be better spent in some place beautiful. |
Special? Special needs more like.
How is it a big deal to pay over the odds for an organised tour to the most oppressive regime on Earth; that doesn't make you an adventurer, it makes you a mug and just like the thousands of mindless nobbers who pay 4 million won for organised K tours to Phuket. |
I respectfully disagree.
Experiencing a place so different from anywhere else on Earth appeals to me a lot. Gloablization has caused much of the world to become so similar. I am in Daejeon now but really, I could be in any city in the world. Pyongyang has a uniqueness that I find intriguing. If you don't 'get that', then fine but to say that those who want to experience it are mugs is out of order. |
I understand your curiosity, I share it, however don't you feel that you're on morally very shaky ground?
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Absolutely not.
As I alluded to earlier in this thread, I have paid thousands in taxes to a government that has killed millions of innocent people. |
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hugekebab
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| What a great way to rationalise a clearly immoral act. |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| hugekebab wrote: |
| What a great way to rationalise a clearly immoral act. |
You have killed more people with your tax money than I have paying my 2.5 million won to the North Koreans.
There is no moral issue. |
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hugekebab
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Beeyee wrote: |
| hugekebab wrote: |
| What a great way to rationalise a clearly immoral act. |
You have killed more people with your tax money than I have paying my 2.5 million won to the North Koreans.
There is no moral issue. |
I'm sorry, who did I pay taxes to?
Am I American?
'There is no moral issue.' Do you honestly believe that? |
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hugekebab
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Ach, silly argument let's forget it, Happy New Year mate; water under the bridge and all that. |
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princess
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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I'll have to agree with hugekebab. There is no way I could give my hard earned money to that disgusting, cold, dark, Stalinist state. If you are so curious about North Korea, just go online like I did and watch some videos about the place. I even saw one where this American journalist went up there via China for a week. Everything was so orchestrated and set up for him. He was taken everywhere by guards and was only allowed to see certain things. He could tell the people were miserable, even though they had to put on these fake, smiling faces. He was taken to this huge banquet room, where the ladies were all dressed in hanboks. They seemed to be laying out huge amounts of food for this so-called "banquet" that never happened. No one ever showed up. It was just this one man. He said the food was like eating fried matter. Totally disgusting, he said.
He was taken to this so-called tea shop, and the girl waiting in there for him had probably seen no one come in there for like 10 months he said. How sad to live such an isolated existence.
If that isn't sad enough, just watch one of the videos that shows how many of the people up there are having to go out and dig for rats, snakes and frogs to eat. Also, in the smaller towns, people actually catch little kids, bathe them, boil them and eat them. That is the saddest, sickest thing I've ever heard. It breaks my heart the way those people up there are having to live. I see why many of them die trying to escape. Either way, chances are they will die. It is sad to see the ones in those videos who are brainwashed into loving their dear leader, and the others are desperately trying to get out of there. Little children are taught in school how great the dear leader is, and how he felt sad when he was a boy that his classmates were all wearing wet sneakers, so he went back home, took his boots off, and put on wet sneakers, so he could be like his fellow comrades. Yeah right. Do you think he lives like his fellow comrades? He lives a life of luxury, while his comrades are fighting for their lives everyday.
I also saw a video about this American military man who crossed the DMZ over onto the North side because he actually wanted to live in North Korea. The video showed him with his family in their box apartment. He said he has lived there for years and the dear leader loves him and takes care of him. He said he is happy with his free health care. I couldn't believe it.  |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| princess wrote: |
| Also, in the smaller towns, people actually catch little kids, bathe them, boil them and eat them. |
Propaganda works both ways I see.
I could be wrong of course but I highy doubt that this is true. |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| hugekebab wrote: |
| Ach, silly argument let's forget it, Happy New Year mate; water under the bridge and all that. |
Aye happy new year to you too.
I could sure use a huge donner kebab right now  |
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hugekebab
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Beeyee wrote: |
| princess wrote: |
| Also, in the smaller towns, people actually catch little kids, bathe them, boil them and eat them. |
Propaganda works both ways I see.
I could be wrong of course but I highy doubt that this is true. |
Aye, happy new year.
Actually it may has some truth to it. I've read some stuff about a famine in Russia; lots of people were eaten, some were killed and eaten. A recent Russia serial killer ate his victims, he cited experience in the above Russian famine as the reason for it. It seems a common thread with famines in cold climates seems to be cannibalism. |
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Donghae
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| hugekebab wrote: |
Actually it may has some truth to it. I've read some stuff about a famine in Russia; lots of people were eaten, some were killed and eaten. A recent Russia serial killer ate his victims, he cited experience in the above Russian famine as the reason for it. It seems a common thread with famines in cold climates seems to be cannibalism. |
Yeah, I think you're right that there may be a grain of truth in it. People facing certain death from starvation, who end up having no other choice for survival but to turn to the bodies of people already dead for food, does indeed sound believable to me. It has been known to happen in extreme situations elsewhere.
But when a bit is added about them catching little kids, boiling them and eating them, then that has my BS alarm ringing seriously loud. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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dude don't care what anyone on here says!!
going to North Korea is going to be the greatest trip of a life time..
its a story you will tell for ever and people will love to hear..
not many people can say they have been to North korea..
I would love to go one day...
take pictures... hope to see them next year... |
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superdave
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: over there ----->
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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the 200mm lens rule isn't firm. if the lens LOOKS big, they'll ban it ... if it's a compact lens with a bigger range, they're likely to let you take it.
actually, i considered doing a NK tour this year ... but i've decided to go to bhutan instead.
partly cause i don't want to support kim jong il, and partly because i'll get a million better photos in bhutan.
but each to their own ... NK would be a fascinating looksee.
and as others have said, ignore the trolls. they're only here to flame. |
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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| matt!!! wrote: |
| I approach it from the sense of active engagement. |
If you give your money to North Korea then you are actively supporting a repressive government through financing it.
| matt!!! wrote: |
| We might be able to pat ourselves on the backs for it but that's about it. |
Do you expect a payoff for an ethical deed? That's quite cold.
| matt!!! wrote: |
| I'm absolutely fascinated by the situation there and I can't get over how lucky I am to witness it from so close. |
That's active engaged sensationalism. |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| hugekebab wrote: |
| Beeyee wrote: |
| hugekebab wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| It takes a special kind of tourist to journey to the most isolated and totalitarian nation on Earth. Not for everyone but hardly anyone from the west has been inside. I've thought about it for the experience but my money would probably be better spent in some place beautiful. |
Special? Special needs more like.
How is it a big deal to pay over the odds for an organised tour to the most oppressive regime on Earth; that doesn't make you an adventurer, it makes you a mug and just like the thousands of mindless nobbers who pay 4 million won for organised K tours to Phuket. |
I respectfully disagree.
Experiencing a place so different from anywhere else on Earth appeals to me a lot. Gloablization has caused much of the world to become so similar. I am in Daejeon now but really, I could be in any city in the world. Pyongyang has a uniqueness that I find intriguing. If you don't 'get that', then fine but to say that those who want to experience it are mugs is out of order. |
I'm not looking for a personal argument at all, but my view:
Funding fascism is out of order I'm afraid. Would you have done a weeks trip to Nazi Germany in 1950? Maybe take a tour of Buchenwald? Maybe take a tour of Stalin's gulags? And yes, you can quite reasonably compare NK with Hitler's Germany; it's not an idle comparative. You'll be stuffing your face with food and people not far from you will be literally starving. Further North, people will be being shot or dying of hypothermia desperately trying to get out of the place and cross the border to China. You are funding the armament of the state and the rape and suppression of its people.
I understand your curiosity, I share it, however don't you feel that you're on morally very shaky ground?
If you do go, stay within the cordons or they will shoot you and kill you. Charming.
Look, my main point is very simple. If I were locked up in a cage in abject misery I wouldn't appreciate 'curious' and 'fascinated' people from the more wonderfully luxurious countries on Earth funding the zoo I'm stuck in and gawking at me to satisfy their deep, meaningful urges. |
It would be hard to do a trip to Nazi Germany in 1950 as Hitler died in 1945 and the Russians and Allies invaded in the same year.
Visiting East germany in 1950 would be a lot like visting North Korea as it was under communist Russian rule in 1950.
Visiting Nazi germany from 1939-1945 would have be freaky as there was a war going on.
Nazi germany would have been amazing to visit during the years before the war like going to se the Olympics or any big display of military or a speech by Hitler.
But in 1950 the Nazi's were long gone. |
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