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chotaerang
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Location: In the gym
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 Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Bobster, thanks for putting up the article. I'm curious about something: If, in your opinion, American involvement in Vietnam was wrong or mistaken, how do you feel about American involvement in Korea 15-20 years before? This is not a rhetorical question. I'm guessing that you would have been opposed to America's involvement in Viet Nam and I really wonder if you see Korea in the same light, or if circumstances here were fundamentally different. |
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rookieglobetrotter
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: History Repeats Itself |
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In their causes, mistakes, and similarities
Vietnam and Iraq
Great Depression, the Economic Crisis we have now
Hopefully, the US doesn't mirror a Rome or another fallen empire.
What will it take for us to learn and prevent these costly mistakes |
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sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| AMERICA CANT WIN WARS, WE HAVE LEARNED THIS ALREADY |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| sharkey wrote: |
| AMERICA CANT WIN WARS, WE HAVE LEARNED THIS ALREADY |
전쟁 쳤던 경험 없는데. Vietnam도 1973년에 Paris Treaty로 이겼잖아! |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
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The Bobster imagined:
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| Vietnam very quickly became a whirlpool in which the greater amount of lives and energy that got expended, the less likely the hawks in America were willing to consider withdrawal. The writer doesn't menion Iraq anywhere in his article, I believe, but the implication is that parallels are to be found ... and I do think it's true that the longer we stay, and more of soldiers die, the more difficult it will be to declare victory and bring them back. |
It's hard to take someone seriously who posts using an avatar with a MASH-era peace sign but I'll take a stab at it anyhow.
Once again you show your liberal bias. Conservatives wage war without regard to the size or length of troop deployment required because they understand the importance of keeping commitments of this sort. Liberals view war as something you retreat from the moment things get rough. Unfortunately, Rumsfield was dead from the neck up; he had the right attitude but the wrong tactics, as both Shinseki and Powell knew only too well. McNamara was alot like Rumsfield in this regard.
The U.S. did not lose the war militarily and it was fighting a proxy war against the Chinese and Soviets too, less not conveniently forget. We lost the public will to fight.
The best book on knowing what the enemy was thinking and when is McNamara et al edited Argument Without End (1999) which draws on recently declassified Vietnamese documents and the transcripts of interviews with former NVA officials. I suggest you read that before jumping to conclusions again. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Has there ever been a war the conservative previous poster didn't like? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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ManInTheMiddle: also consult R. Brigham's Guerrilla Diplomacy: the NLF's Foreign Relations and the Viet Nam War (Cornell, 1999).
Did America win or loose the Vietnam War? Such questions exclude multiple other participants and their interests. In any case, in the narrow sense, America's ally, Saigon, collapsed and fell. America withdrew from the country. And Ho Chi Minh's forces dictated "Vietnam" according to their dreams of what it should be -- even if they only won a devastated land. Many, unfortunately, see this as a total victory over the Great Satan because they romanticize anyone who "resists" it. They will not be reasoned with, ManInTheMiddle.
On the other hand, America stopped Chinese expansionism in Southeast Asia. During the Vietnam War, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Taiwan stabilized and remained in the American and not the Chinese and/or Soviet orbit in the Cold War. And of course, industrial Japan remained in the Western orbit as well. So if we judge this conflict as one leg of Truman's East-Asian containment policy that failed, just one battle in a larger war, then it becomes no big deal, because overall, America, the Cold War's winner, achieved its larger objectives in East Asia as well as Western Europe.
And let us not forget to mention that China, Soviet-backed Hanoi, and Chinese-backed Cambodia were fighting each other into the 1980s... |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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All I can say about this is............a military can't effectively fight a war/campaign with one hand tied behind its back.
Furthermore, the media got way too involved...........simple.
dmbfan |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
All I can say about this is............a military can't effectively fight a war/campaign with one hand tied behind its back.
dmbfan |
Careful now, you'll have people with low levels of reading comprehension coming on here and saying "Aha, this means you support torture."
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Careful now, you'll have people with low levels of reading comprehension coming on here and saying "Aha, this means you support torture." |
.....only if it's done Jack Bauer style.
dmbfan |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Careful now, you'll have people with low levels of reading comprehension coming on here and saying "Aha, this means you support torture." |
.....only if it's done Jack Bauer style.
dmbfan |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sharkey wrote: |
| AMERICA CANT WIN WARS, WE HAVE LEARNED THIS ALREADY |
Troll.
You're just envious because your country couldn't win a war by itself even if invaded by Greenland. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
| You're just envious because your country couldn't win a war by itself even if invaded by Greenland. |
Cue an outraged remark about how "Canada" defeated the great United States and even burned down the White House in 1812...or about how Canada single-handedly carried the day on D-Day, etc., etc., etc.
Canada: the Hub of North America and the Atlantic World |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| ReeseDog wrote: |
| You're just envious because your country couldn't win a war by itself even if invaded by Greenland. |
Cue an outraged remark about how "Canada" defeated the great United States and even burned down the White House in 1812...or about how Canada single-handedly carried the day on D-Day, etc., etc., etc.
Canada: the Hub of North America and the Atlantic World |
That's funny. The way I heard it was that the British burned the White House. Did Canada exist by that point?
Was Canada involved in D-day? Oh, yes, that's right - there was the famous drive of the Canadian Airborne Divisions. Tens of thousands of Canadian berserkers raining from the sky and routing the Nazis at every turn. I must have misread the history books.
Generally, I like Canadians, though. Good homesy folks, in my experience.
From any country you'll find pencil-necked tools who post badass only online because they know that they'll get thrown a beating for saying the same things in person. We have a few around here. They know who they are. |
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