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korean legend or truth? dogs and pregnancy...
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antoniothegreat



Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:19 am    Post subject: korean legend or truth? dogs and pregnancy... Reply with quote

several koreans have told me that it is not safe to have dogs in the house if a woman is pregnant or there is a child under age 5.

back home, i know dogs can become jelous and physically attack a child, but here they believe it is because of the dog giving diseases or things like that.

obviously, i would not think bringing in a dirty homeless dog to lick a baby's face is good, but having an indoor dog, is that bad?

is there any truth to this? or is it just a carry over from the dirty dogs living near the farm days?

any thoughts?
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is only young dogs you have to worry about.

The disease carrying vermin I recall as being cats. No cats in the house with newborns sticks out in my mind.
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teachergirltoo



Joined: 28 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know lots of westerners that have dogs and infants. Unfortunately, cats can carry a certain disease that can affect some pregnant women if they clean their litter boxes. From what I understand most husbands will clean the litter boxes during pregnancy and then there is no problem.
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mom was always fearful of the cat becoming jealous and smothering my brother.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bassexpander wrote:
My mom was always fearful of the cat becoming jealous and smothering my brother.


Carruther's other brother got smothered by his mother.

(I have no idea why I posted this)
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RACETRAITOR



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
I think it is only young dogs you have to worry about.

The disease carrying vermin I recall as being cats. No cats in the house with newborns sticks out in my mind.


Well, there was my home. Both I and my sister were raised from birth with a cat, who did her best as a cat to take care of us. I've never heard anyone say cats are dirtier than dogs.
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Scotticus



Joined: 18 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RACETRAITOR wrote:

Well, there was my home. Both I and my sister were raised from birth with a cat, who did her best as a cat to take care of us. I've never heard anyone say cats are dirtier than dogs.


It has nothing to do with cleanliness. Many (most?) cats carry a parasite called toxoplasma gondii. Infected rats have been shown to literally lose their fear of cats (healthy rats will avoid cat urine like the plague, however infected rats have no issue with it and will actually seek it out). Because the cat is its preferred host, it's assumed that TG messes with the rat's mind in order to get back to a cat's body (this is a fairly standard practice amongst parasites in the wild).

Anyway, the reason it's not safe for women is that research indicates that pregnant women exposed to the parasite have children with unusually high instances of mental illness. From the wiki:

Quote:
Several independent pieces of evidence point towards a possible role of Toxoplasma infection in some cases of schizophrenia and paranoia, but this theory does not seem to account for many cases.[10] A recent study has indicated toxoplasmosis is also correlated strongly with an increase in boy births in humans, leading to an alteration of the human sex ratio.[11] According to the researchers, "depending on the antibody concentration, the probability of the birth of a boy can increase up to a value of 0.72 " The study also notes a mean rate of 0.60 to 0.65 (as opposed to the normal 0.51) for Toxoplasma positive mothers.

One study suggests that a possible behavior modification is that people not infected with the parasite found women with toxoplasma more attractive than women who don't have toxoplasma.[12] Another study performed in the Czech Republic suggests individuals with latent toxoplasmosis had a 2.65 times higher risk of traffic accidents than noninfected subjects; and concludes "that 'asymptomatic' acquired toxoplasmosis might in fact represent a serious and highly underestimated public health problem, as well as an economic problem."[13]
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Goku



Joined: 10 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotticus wrote:
RACETRAITOR wrote:

Well, there was my home. Both I and my sister were raised from birth with a cat, who did her best as a cat to take care of us. I've never heard anyone say cats are dirtier than dogs.


It has nothing to do with cleanliness. Many (most?) cats carry a parasite called toxoplasma gondii. Infected rats have been shown to literally lose their fear of cats (healthy rats will avoid cat urine like the plague, however infected rats have no issue with it and will actually seek it out). Because the cat is its preferred host, it's assumed that TG messes with the rat's mind in order to get back to a cat's body (this is a fairly standard practice amongst parasites in the wild).

Anyway, the reason it's not safe for women is that research indicates that pregnant women exposed to the parasite have children with unusually high instances of mental illness. From the wiki:

Quote:
Several independent pieces of evidence point towards a possible role of Toxoplasma infection in some cases of schizophrenia and paranoia, but this theory does not seem to account for many cases.[10] A recent study has indicated toxoplasmosis is also correlated strongly with an increase in boy births in humans, leading to an alteration of the human sex ratio.[11] According to the researchers, "depending on the antibody concentration, the probability of the birth of a boy can increase up to a value of 0.72 " The study also notes a mean rate of 0.60 to 0.65 (as opposed to the normal 0.51) for Toxoplasma positive mothers.

One study suggests that a possible behavior modification is that people not infected with the parasite found women with toxoplasma more attractive than women who don't have toxoplasma.[12] Another study performed in the Czech Republic suggests individuals with latent toxoplasmosis had a 2.65 times higher risk of traffic accidents than noninfected subjects; and concludes "that 'asymptomatic' acquired toxoplasmosis might in fact represent a serious and highly underestimated public health problem, as well as an economic problem."[13]


That is awsome. A parasite that affects the behavioral patterns of it's host to try to get to it's preffered host. I always find parasites amazing because of their ability to have highly creative ways to infect their hosts.

Anyways, in western homes, I don't beleive this is a common concern. I know many families that still decide to keep dogs and don't really have any stigma against keeping them with pregant women or children. But like many have voiced they will oust cats because of the smothering issue.

I'm more curious if anyone has more details about the Korean origin of this saying... Obviously it is rooted in some truth but where did it come from?
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Koreans are so worried about the safety and health of their children they'd wash their own hands after defecating, not share food bowls to avoid spreading the rampant Hepatitis and H. pylori infections in this country and would put young children in protective car seats.

The rates of liver dysfunction, stomach cancer and child mortality in accidents in Korea far exceed the risk associated with children bonding with a pet.

Geez.

I know, I know. "It's a cultural thing."
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, this thread lasted fifteen hours before it turned into a Korean bashing session. I'm sure we all can do better next time.

Not that I don't criticize when warranted, but jeez seems like some go out of their way to find an opportunity.

How miserable are you living here?
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The Grumpy Senator



Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next step is to call T-J a gyopo.

Look at the Miracle Whip thread for an example of the character of Dave's.
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Scotticus



Joined: 18 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Grumpy Senator wrote:
Next step is to call T-J a gyopo.


He is, though. He's talked multiple times about his F-Visa. Is it still classic Dave's to accuse someone of being a gyopo if they actually are?
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polonius



Joined: 05 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a dog, and last year had a baby. One of our neighbours also had a baby at the same time, and they gave away their dog. The security guard tried to tell me that it wasn't right to have a dog and infant in the house together. I believe that this stems from jealousness that a dog might feel, and may scratch or nip at the infant. Introducing your dog and baby needs to be a gradual process so that the dog starts to associate that there is another higher ranking person in the family. All of this stems from the training of the dog. Dogs need to realize that they are the lowest on the totem pole. The owners need to be the Alpha Male/Female, and the dog needs to know its position in the hierarchy.

Dogs are relatively new to Korea as pets. I know that many owners don't train their dogs (This is of course true to North Americans too.) I hate it when dogs are treated as a family member and eat from the table, or when they are treated as accessories, painted ears and tails. I have also seen the cripple dog syndrome, when the owners refuse to let the dog walk, and they are carried everywhere.

There is no proof that dogs are dangerous to have with infants in the house. In fact, quite the opposite is true.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/05/health/webmd/main2230906.shtml

Quote:
Infants who live in a house with multiple dogs may be less likely to develop allergies later in life, according to a new study.

Researchers found that infants who live in a home with two or more dogs and a high level of certain types of a bacterial substance were a third less likely to develop wheezing in the first year of life than those who didn't live with dogs.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotticus wrote:
The Grumpy Senator wrote:
Next step is to call T-J a gyopo.


He is, though. He's talked multiple times about his F-Visa. Is it still classic Dave's to accuse someone of being a gyopo if they actually are?


F-2-1.
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tfunk



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: korean legend or truth? dogs and pregnancy... Reply with quote

antoniothegreat wrote:
several koreans have told me that it is not safe to have dogs in the house if a woman is pregnant or there is a child under age 5.



Did you ask them why?
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