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TECO

Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: Can a Soldier Defend Shooting an Unarmed Wounded Enemy? |
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Canadian soldiers in the news: Capt. Semrau Fires Two Shots into Wounded Taliban
Does this ring of another Somalia type blunder by the Canadian military? Why or why not?
Will it impact Canada's image as "Peace Keepers"?
Not much info has been released on the details surrounding the incident. |
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Jandar

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: |
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Certainly a sad Case no matter how you look at it.
I'll wait to see how the trial goes and what evidence is put into play.
One thing that was mentioned was the the injured guy was still armed, I imagine that will play into the defense along with PTSD.
Something tells me that mercy killing may be the weakest defense to mount.
"... one was dead, the other, armed with an assault rifle, was apparently seriously wounded. His injuries were deemed "too severe for in-situ treatment.""
Other things to consider, without a body how do you know if he even shot the wounded man?
Testimony is going to be critical.
Here's the excerpts from the Prosecutions opening summary.
"After this process, Capt. Semrau was observed to be the only person in close proximity to the severely wounded insurgent.
"During this period, two shots were heard and at least one witness reports that he saw Capt. Semrau firing his rifle at the severely wounded insurgent.
"After evaluating all the available evidence, the prosecution believes that it was Capt. Semrau who fired both shots, that these shots resulted in the death of the severely wounded insurgent and that Capt. Semrau had no lawful justification for shooting the severely wounded insurgent.
"Immediately afterward, all forces resumed the mission and the body of the severely wounded insurgent was left behind.
"That body has not been recovered."
http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/article/562812 |
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sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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if he killed a wounded unarmed fighter, he deserves to go to jail. This behavior is really unacceptable for any modern affluent army. I really am interested in how this works out. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Can a Soldier Defend Shooting an Unarmed Wounded Enemy? |
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TECO wrote: |
Canadian soldiers in the news: Capt. Semrau Fires Two Shots into Wounded Taliban
Does this ring of another Somalia type blunder by the Canadian military? Why or why not?
Will it impact Canada's image as "Peace Keepers"?
Not much info has been released on the details surrounding the incident. |
Your title is inaccurate. The wounded Taliban was armed with an assault rifle. |
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Jandar

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Can a Soldier Defend Shooting an Unarmed Wounded Enemy? |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
TECO wrote: |
Canadian soldiers in the news: Capt. Semrau Fires Two Shots into Wounded Taliban
Does this ring of another Somalia type blunder by the Canadian military? Why or why not?
Will it impact Canada's image as "Peace Keepers"?
Not much info has been released on the details surrounding the incident. |
Your title is inaccurate. The wounded Taliban was armed with an assault rifle. |
If you read the article I posted you will see that the evidence shows that the wounded man was found with a weapon but the weapon had been removed prior to anyone hearing the two shots fired.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Soldier+released+banned+from+guns/1152852/story.html
Also he has been released pending trial. |
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Bigfeet

Joined: 29 May 2008 Location: Grrrrr.....
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I laugh at the people that try to judge a soldier's action in the heat of combat as if it had happened in their home town while they were out on a walk to get some fresh air. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Bigfeet wrote: |
I laugh at the people that try to judge a soldier's action in the heat of combat as if it had happened in their home town while they were out on a walk to get some fresh air. |
The published reports suggest he shot an unarmed, wounded man. Sure, war is hell etc etc but shooting an unarmed, wounded man is murder. On the battlefield or not. |
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it's full of stars

Joined: 26 Dec 2007
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: |
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mises wrote: |
Bigfeet wrote: |
I laugh at the people that try to judge a soldier's action in the heat of combat as if it had happened in their home town while they were out on a walk to get some fresh air. |
The published reports suggest he shot an unarmed, wounded man. Sure, war is hell etc etc but shooting an unarmed, wounded man is murder. On the battlefield or not. |
Really?
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As with my July, 2006, experience, one was dead, the other, armed with an assault rifle, was apparently seriously wounded. His injuries were deemed "too severe for in-situ treatment."
The prosecutor said that Capt. Semrau was the only person standing near the wounded insurgent when two shots rang out and the Talib was found dead. A witness will apparently testify that he saw the young officer firing at the insurgent. |
Even a clown could read this particular published report, and see it quite clearly states, the live taliban combatant was armed with an assault rifle, before being shot.
Damn, Dave's is hell.  |
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T-J

Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:05 am Post subject: |
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The quote that has a little more detail is from the other article linked below.
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The court was told Tuesday that the captain was commanding an operational mentor and liaison team with Afghan soldiers on a 26-kilometre sweep when they were ambushed. After U.S. Apache attack helicopters were called in and the assault was defeated, Afghan soldiers found a dead Taliban fighter beside another who was �severely wounded.� After the insurgent was disarmed it was determined his wounds that were �too severe for any type of treatment� in the field.
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http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Soldier+released+banned+from+guns/1152852/story.html
It's O.K. to walk away from this guy and let him painfully bleed out for the next 10, maybe 20 minutes in agony. But it was not O.K. to "finish the job."
This is the position you are all taking with your indignant responses, and you are in agreement with the laws of warfare.
I just want you all to realize the alternative to what this soldier did was not to save his life. He was dead one way or the other. The only question was how long he was going to have to endure slowly drowning in his own blood.
Shitty situation all around. Kind of puts your own difficulties in perspective a little doesn't it. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Compunction Junction
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I heard a segment about this on CBC radio. It sounded to me like it was more of a mercy kill than anything. The problem being is that there are "laws of warfare" that state that injured enemies must be given the same treatment as your own soldiers.
Clearly that was not done.
The taliban dude was not really a threat being far too injured and, from what I remember hearing, his weapon was taken from him.
I think that this guy shouldn't really be derided for his choice, but whether he had legal obligations to follow, that may be another story. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Even if it was a mercy killing, justifying this seems like a slippery slope. Who decides under what circumstances you can put a bullet in someone deemed too far gone to save? |
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canuckistan Mod Team


Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Wounded fighters can still kill their opponents, whether they have assault rifles or grenades tucked away with their fingers around the pin, waiting.
Here's a good rule:
Stop shooting only when it doesn't move anymore. |
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BreakfastInBed

Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Location: Gyeonggi do
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:30 am Post subject: |
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At the end of the day rules for warfare are a patent absurdity. With the possible exception of Canuckistan's. |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: |
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sharkey wrote: |
if he killed a wounded unarmed fighter, he deserves to go to jail. This behavior is really unacceptable for any modern affluent army. I really am interested in how this works out. |
if he killed a wounded unarmed fighter, he deserves to go to jail. This behavior is really unacceptable.
There, that's better! |
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