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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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 Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The cynicism apparently knows no bounds. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to get in some asinine argument about it. There has been racism in the Republican party, particularly against blacks: it doesn't define the party, nor does it control it, but its there.
The links you put above just prove my point: the Republicans are already seeing an opportunity to expunge racism from the party entirely. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
I'm not going to get in some asinine argument about it. There has been racism in the Republican party, particularly against blacks: it doesn't define the party, nor does it control it, but its there.
The links you put above just prove my point: the Republicans are already seeing an opportunity to expunge racism from the party entirely. |
I agree with this, although I'd probably say the amount of racism has been a few degrees more influential than Kuros seems to be saying. I hope caniff is wrong about the cynicism.
(As a point of reference, I entered kindergarten the same year as Brown vs Board of Education. Some of my earliest memories of TV are from Little Rock and the fire hoses and German shepards.) |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
I'm not going to get in some asinine argument about it. There has been racism in the Republican party, particularly against blacks: it doesn't define the party, nor does it control it, but its there... |
Right. Just like the homophobia and other forms of intolerance that exist in the Democratic Party. Does not define the party, either. But it remains alive and well.
And last I heard, Ya-ta Boy, Brown and Little Rock involved a Republican administration, a Republican-appointed chief justice, and a very racist Democratic Southern governor -- not to mention a very racist Democratic-controlled South. How does this support Kuros's reduction-with -qualification-and-disclaimer of the Republican Party as "racist," apparently as a useful foil for the more ideological pure Democrats?
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
I'm not going to get in some asinine argument about it. There has been racism in the Republican party, particularly against blacks: it doesn't define the party, nor does it control it, but its there... |
Right. Just like the homophobia and other forms of intolerance that exist in the Democratic Party. Does not define the party, either. But it remains alive and well. |
You're right. Obama doesnt even support gay marriage. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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...not to mention all of those B. Obama supporters who actively voted against it as well. If you want to concede that problems such as racism and homophobia still plague humanity -- advances in modern Western nation-states notwithstanding -- then I will readily agree. Just do not play partisan games and attempt to hang one or the other on one particular nation-state and/or any of its domestic political factions.
Such issues represent universal problems that we all need to tackle -- effectively, constructively, and without the dramatic posturing and accompanying hyperbole that tend to dominate and thus derail such discussions. Do not assume that many African-Americans are not deeply racist, for example.
Last edited by Gopher on Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| You're right. Obama doesnt even support gay marriage. |
Pandering to the Christian-Right to promote his centrist position, I would suppose. Either that or he actually doesn't support gay marriage, which in my mind is disappointing.
I would hope our nation could move beyond such trivialities now that we're here in the 21st century, but apparently we're not there yet.
I'm tired of politicians co-opting Jesus for their (and their bases') attempts to legislate their own narrow sense of morality. It doesn't speak well for our republic. Enough, already. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
The old, tired detritus and reminents of Reaganesque philosophy will be washed away...
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Unfortunately, the old, tired detritus and remnants of Bush and Clinton will be with us, as evidenced by just about every cabinet pick made so far.
Is this more of the kind of change that stays the same? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Keith Olberman = Rush Limbaugh
Fact : None of the 9-11 hijackers were from Afghanistan.
Is Osama Bin Laden from Afghanistan? How about Zawahari?
Was anyone in Al Qaeda from Afghanistan?
Sandy Burger said that in 1996 that the US did not have enough evidence to convict Bin Laden in a US court.
Is that a justice system up to dealing with Al Qaeda?
In the end we shall see just how many of Bush's policies that Obama keeps. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Are you sure?? The difference between a "civil union" and marriage is very slight. If the country was down with "marriage" he'd be too. "Civil unions" are just a stepping stone to marriage. Softening the blow. But this is what Obama said:
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| "I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages." |
in 1996.
And about prop 13:
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| In their statistical analysis, Egan and Sherrill found that the exit polls dramatically overstated African-American support for Proposition 8. According to the two professors, 58 percent of African-Americans voted for the measure. By comparison, 59 percent of Latinos and Hispanics supported it, along with 49 percent of whites and 48 percent of Asians. |
So, 10%. Not exactly a real big deal.
Anyways, I don't really care. As the article I linked to points out, prop 13 died because of religiosity and not some inherent opposition to gays as held by blacks/hispanics. Religion poisons everything.
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| Egan and Sherrill found that 70 percent of those who attend church weekly reported voting for the measure. Eighty-one percent of those identifying themselves as Republicans also voted for it. |
And blacks attend church with more regularity than any other demographic group in the US. Which makes them "natural Republicans" and not hispanics, whose commitment to Catholicism is rather loose. If the GOP could 1) purge the racists and 2) make meaningful attempts to court blacks they could seriously increase the number of blacks in their ranks.
Matt Taibbi went undercover in an Orlando Republican office a couple elections back. Below, he writes of blacks and Repubs.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6539082/bush_like_me/
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I ended up getting to know Lorin Jones a little. He was an odd, sincere person who interested me largely because he was by far the most dedicated, effective and intellectually honest Republican volunteer the party had in the area, and yet the campaign more or less completely ignored him.
A devout Christian, Lorin supported Bush not only because of the social-religious issues, but because he sincerely believed that state financial aid had had a corrosive effect on the black community and that communities should support themselves through charity. He was the living incarnation of the "thousand points of light" idea. He ought to have been a poster child for Republican values.
"In my neighborhood, you can go up to anybody and ask where the black Republican lives," he said. "And they'll lead you right to my house. But they respect me because of what I've done."
And I saw this. At a function I would later attend in his neighborhood, I met several people who had been converted to Bush by Lorin. He was working round-the-clock for the president, but the campaign was just trying to turn him into another Johnny Hunter. "All they want me to do is start clubs," he said. "Tallahassee keeps calling and bugging me to start black clubs. And I hate that, because I think that puts us all in boxes. I think we should be going out into the community more."
Lorin believed that Republicans could win twenty percent of the black vote � not the usual ten percent � if they were smart about it. All they had to do, he said, was visit black churches and hand out fact sheets showing the Republican and Democratic stances on social and religious issues. "You wouldn't even have to campaign," he said. "You'd get an extra ten percent right there." |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:04 am Post subject: |
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It is childish and stupid to assign "racism" or any other homo-sapiens-wide problem to one or another partisan group -- not to mention to one or another nation-state -- as if it does not occur elsewhere. It makes to sense, then, to call Republicans "racist" if racism exists everywhere. Yet that is what posters habitually do here.
So this is childish and stupid. We may find racism in many quarters -- just as we find homophobia in many quarters. That remains my point. No more no less. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| We may find racism in many quarters -- just as we find homophobia in many quarters |
But "many quarters" in life don't run the country or vie to run the country.
It's not childish and stupid to be disgusted at a political party whose members participate in "white only" country clubs or disseminate racist holiday CD's to fellow party members at Christmas as a "joke." (!!)
After all, they do compete to run the country, act in our names, and make policy/laws for all of us. |
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