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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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 Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: Barack Obama campaign promise breaking? |
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Many of you will recall , how during the election it was promised by the Barack Obama campaign that if they won, the Bush adminstration would indeed be investigate and if crimes found , prosecuted.
Now they appear to be backing off on the claim , as Obamas new thing is no wantig to focus on the past but just move forward.
To me this seems a farse. Has anyone here ever commited a crime in any of your home nations and been able to get away with it by asking the judge to move forward? I think not.
Does anyone else view this as a campaign promise broken? |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Yes, they're not going to hold our executives accountable to negligence, but failing companies shareholders are in the process of firing CEO's so the ailing capitalist system will correct itself given time. It's just going to be painful, especially if going home anytime soon expecting a new job. The Obama administration will not be able to outright fix the economy, but can enforce more policing and regulation of it as well as nationalize the banks managed by government employed financial managers and officers held accountable by enforced law. And when the corruptions are policed and set straight, America can work on rebuilding.
The Bush administration will not be held accountable for the managing to create the biggest boondoggle in the history of the world, but will receive golden parachutes. The Bush administration and corporate business interests globally were all in cahoots, many well employed white collar American citizens thought it was all good to the point of re-electing Bush since it was working for them, and then in 2008, the grim facts started surfacing and now we have all this major drama going down with 2009 looking to be a real wanker. This is to no surprise to average Americans as we already knew the job market was not fruitful and corruptions are running wild with executives not being held accountable like common people are.
Last edited by sojourner1 on Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: |
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BO's promises were broken even before they were made. I have been saying for over a year now here that there is not a dime's worth of difference between Bush and Obama. We can see that already as he has chosen essentially no one for his cabinet outside of the Bush/Clinton clique.
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| To me this seems a farse. Has anyone here ever commited a crime in any of your home nations and been able to get away with it by asking the judge to move forward? |
No, but let's hope it sets a precedent. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well looks like Obama is now giving the CIA a free pass!:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/15/AR2009011504009_pf.html
this fucking pisses me off. Why is it in the United States we NEVER EVER EVER hold our leaders accountable for what they do? They went after Clinton over a ****** blow job! But your telling me Bush and the last 8 years of lies, deciet, torture, revealing a CIA officers Identity, refusing congressional subpeonas no bid halliburton wheeling and dealing BS gets a complete free pass??!! Are you kidding me?!!!!
Why cant we hold our leaders accountable? Other nations do! Hell, after his term is up in Feburary Israels Olmert is going on trial for corruption! But no, in the US We dont. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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bacasper reminded:
| Quote: |
| BO's promises were broken even before they were made. I have been saying for over a year now here that there is not a dime's worth of difference between Bush and Obama. We can see that already as he has chosen essentially no one for his cabinet outside of the Bush/Clinton clique. |
Well, if you're disillusioned already, Obama must be doing something right.
I knew he'd back down from taking these actions; it was fodder for the Far Left on the campaign trail and I find it laughable that so many among them set aside their eternal cynicism long enough to buy into it.
I also believe that Obama actually likes Bush as a person and is not just saying this to mend fences in public. Bush, ever the gentleman, has also provided the incoming administration with a smoother transition than Clinton or Carter ever gave their successors. This despite the fact that Bush Sr gave well wishes and unsolicited but welcome advice to Clinton.
Bitterness knows no bounds on the Left. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama campaign promise breaking? |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| Many of you will recall , how during the election it was promised by the Barack Obama campaign that if they won, the Bush adminstration would indeed be investigate and if crimes found , prosecuted. |
Can you post the link to this.
Obama isn't even in office YET...so I find it strange he'd be trying to investigate Bush in the process. There is some CIVILITY to be expected just from the honor of the position, and particularly when you are in the middle of your transition period prior to even starting.
I would have to agree with common sense sentiment that being in the White House devotes more time to getting done the MANY significantly more important things than divisive politics. I'm sure investigations will occur soon enough in its natural course, but let's spend a little time straightening out the huge crash course that Bush propelled onto us. Investigations can occur later. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Barack Obama campaign promise breaking? |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
| Many of you will recall , how during the election it was promised by the Barack Obama campaign that if they won, the Bush adminstration would indeed be investigate and if crimes found , prosecuted. |
Can you post the link to this.
Obama isn't even in office YET...so I find it strange he'd be trying to investigate Bush in the process. There is some CIVILITY to be expected just from the honor of the position, and particularly when you are in the middle of your transition period prior to even starting.
I would have to agree with common sense sentiment that being in the White House devotes more time to getting done the MANY significantly more important things than divisive politics. I'm sure investigations will occur soon enough in its natural course, but let's spend a little time straightening out the huge crash course that Bush propelled onto us. Investigations can occur later. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13HbMfKTXr4
Divisive politics? How about the FRICKIN LAW! The Bush Admin Broke the law on several occassions and they SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR IT POLITICS BE DAMNED. This "oh well we cant hold them accountable because its divisive" is BULL CRAP. Ill tell you what. GO commit a crime. and then go tell the judge you want to move forward... o any other myriad of excuses and tell us if he lets you off ok?
Its legal accountability. Something if we dont hold our leaders too, then were going to repeat this crap again in the future.
Despite what guy/with glasses avatar guy says its not bitterness.
its a desire for ACCOUNTABILITY.
You did something, now you should face the consequences for what you did.
Lying to get a nation into a war, cooking the intel even though the intel agencies said Iraq had no WMD, even Rice and Powell said Iraq had no wmd (pre-911) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0wbpKCdkkQ
then after 9-11.. POOF Iraq is a grave threat!
Then the authorizing of torture... revealing the CIA officers ID... Bypssing the FISA Courts for wiretaps on US citiizens.
Then when congress tried to investigate or ask questions of Bush and Cheney for ANY of this and tried giving them subpoenas what happened?
They just blatantly refused.
This kind of crap needs to be rectified. people need to be held accountable.
I dont know why some people readng this thread look at the idea of holding someone accountable for their actions as political bitterness or divisiveness..
Other countries hold their leaders accountable.. Why cant we?
Do you honestly believe the President should have free reign and no accountability just because it would be politically inconvenient?!
What the hell ever happened to checks and balances?! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| being in the White House devotes more time to getting done the MANY significantly more important things than divisive politics. I'm sure investigations will occur soon enough in its natural course, but let's spend a little time straightening out the huge crash course that Bush propelled onto us. Investigations can occur later. |
I agree with this.
The ship has been driven into the iceberg. Now is not the time to investigate who stole the captain's strawberries. Now is the time to fix the damage. Investigations can come later. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:02 am Post subject: |
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I've been hearing some things related to the topic on Countdown.
Most the analysts on there (Turley, Dean, McCllen, etc) seem to say that Obama doesn't want a tit-for-tat investigation cycle to start, but he'll be backed into it by
1) the Left Wing of the party
2) Dems like Conyers
3) the world governments whose members were tortured are will bring charges in the ICC.
At some point, he will make his move against Bush. But, he can afford to be patient. Unfortunately, the rest of the world might not wait till he is ready. Keep in mind that the Bushtards won't be going anywhere. For now, he's stringing them along, playing nice and friendly, keeping tabs on them, until it's time to close the trap.
If you want justice to come on your timetable NAVFC, you know what you have to do. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| being in the White House devotes more time to getting done the MANY significantly more important things than divisive politics. I'm sure investigations will occur soon enough in its natural course, but let's spend a little time straightening out the huge crash course that Bush propelled onto us. Investigations can occur later. |
I agree with this.
The ship has been driven into the iceberg. Now is not the time to investigate who stole the captain's strawberries. Now is the time to fix the damage. Investigations can come later. |
Later as in never? We can fix this mess and investigate at the same time! the investigation would be a DOJ issue.. the fixing our nation will ne a legislative/executive issue. Let the judicial branch deal with Bush and his cronies.
The law demands ACCOUNTABILITY.
This is utter nonsense to think that we should just let people remain unaccountable for their actions. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Later as in never? |
Why does 'later' equal 'never'?
While you are right that investigations are a DoJ responsibility while addressing the problems that confront the country belong to the legislative and other parts of the executive branch, you are missing the connection. Obama wants to attack the series of deep problems that need as much consensus as he can muster. If TV screens are filled scenes of members of the previous administration being hauled into court, the Republicans are going to go ballistic and there will be no consensus on the other matters--and that matters very much.
I too am concerned that violators of the law be punished. As Jonathan Turley says, the war crimes become 'ours' if the perpetrators are not punished. Besides, 2012 or 2016 may be a more effective time to go that way. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Later as in never? |
Why does 'later' equal 'never'?
While you are right that investigations are a DoJ responsibility while addressing the problems that confront the country belong to the legislative and other parts of the executive branch, you are missing the connection. Obama wants to attack the series of deep problems that need as much consensus as he can muster. If TV screens are filled scenes of members of the previous administration being hauled into court, the Republicans are going to go ballistic and there will be no consensus on the other matters--and that matters very much.
I too am concerned that violators of the law be punished. As Jonathan Turley says, the war crimes become 'ours' if the perpetrators are not punished. Besides, 2012 or 2016 may be a more effective time to go that way. |
By 2012,2016 documents will be lost, witneses could be intimidated, memories could be fuzzy or "fuzzy" all of a sudden, etc.
These investigations need to happen while the evidence is fresh. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Later as in never? |
Why does 'later' equal 'never'?
While you are right that investigations are a DoJ responsibility while addressing the problems that confront the country belong to the legislative and other parts of the executive branch, you are missing the connection. Obama wants to attack the series of deep problems that need as much consensus as he can muster. If TV screens are filled scenes of members of the previous administration being hauled into court, the Republicans are going to go ballistic and there will be no consensus on the other matters--and that matters very much.
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Agreed. Obama has other priorities that take precedence. Such as the economy for one. And the rising unemployment rate for another . Going after the Republicans would result in gridlock and give them ammunition to charge that the Democrats don't care about the people, only their political enemies. Then there's the situation in the Middle East and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
North Korean and Iran's nuclear programs need to also be addressed. And there are many other pressing problems. Obama knows this and despite anything that windbag Biden says, Obama has too much on his plate right now then to engage in a paralyzing and long political fight. Besides which too many of the Democrats would go down with Bush...their hands are just as dirty. We've gone through this before and outlined the reasons why. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Later as in never? |
Why does 'later' equal 'never'?
While you are right that investigations are a DoJ responsibility while addressing the problems that confront the country belong to the legislative and other parts of the executive branch, you are missing the connection. Obama wants to attack the series of deep problems that need as much consensus as he can muster. If TV screens are filled scenes of members of the previous administration being hauled into court, the Republicans are going to go ballistic and there will be no consensus on the other matters--and that matters very much.
I too am concerned that violators of the law be punished. As Jonathan Turley says, the war crimes become 'ours' if the perpetrators are not punished. Besides, 2012 or 2016 may be a more effective time to go that way. |
By 2012,2016 documents will be lost, witneses could be intimidated, memories could be fuzzy or "fuzzy" all of a sudden, etc.
These investigations need to happen while the evidence is fresh. |
Give it a rest. The Bush Administration is not the Mob. And it will have little power to intimidate witnesses once it is out of office. It is not some shadowy cabal. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Will Bush Pardon Himself?
by Kenneth Roth
On his way out the door, President Bush might be tempted to protect himself and members of his administration by issuing a broad pardon for any crimes committed in the course of fighting terrorism.
The Constitution allows the president to issue such a blanket, pre-emptive pardon. The only real impediment is the admission of guilt that such a pardon would imply. Attorney General Michael Mukasey said recently that there is no need for a pardon because everyone involved thought they were acting lawfully, and Vice President Dick Cheney has claimed that even his authorization of waterboarding was legal. But the president may issue a broad pardon anyway for fear that the Obama administration would reach different conclusions.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-18/will-bush-pardon-himself/
Might want to keep this in mind until we know at noon on Tuesday. |
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