Korean Job Discussion Forums

caniff · Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map

Alternative energy is on the horizon. The entire region needs to be relegated to the inconsequential and left to stew in its own shit until it can pull itself together.

That goes for Pakistan, Israel, Saudi, Iran, the lot of them. Western liberal democracy and the sorry excuses for states in the ME are like oil and water, and no good is coming from our dealings with them.

I know the US (my country) has dirty hands, but I'm hoping this will change. The political will to disengage from that clusterfuck grows day by day.

RJjr · Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Location: Turning on a Lamp

agentX · Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Location: Jeolla province

Jandar · Joined: 11 Jun 2008

asylum seeker · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Location: On your computer screen.

bigverne · Joined: 12 May 2004

bigverne · Joined: 12 May 2004

This is the Brotherhood's 'Mission Statement'.

Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.

mises · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired

Adventurer · Joined: 28 Jan 2006

I think somebody missed the fact that Israel just banned two of the Arab political parties, and not long ago an Israeli Christian Arab was facing trumped up charges by Israel, and rather than face them decided he didn't trust Israeli justice, and he settled in Syria. Israel also arrested pro-peace protesters. Israel is not exactly going forward when it comes to democracy, and the coverage of the war was just as bad as American coverage of the Iraq War, if not a lot worse, which is unusual for Israel.

The Palestinians voted in Hamas. It was a democratic vote. The response was encouraging the PA to use force and intimidation to remove them, and Hamas, unfortunately, responded with a coup d'etat in 2007, but that coup d'etat is connected with attempts to remove Hamas.
The Palestinians had a unity government. Does the US really want democratic governments in the Middle East, Man In the Middle. Do you know what would happen if there were such states?

If there were democratic governments considering the state of cultural war between the Arabs and Israelis and a lack of peace, the peace treaties in Jordan and Egypt would be in danger of being scrapped, the masses would call for Arab armies joining each other. Do you really think the U.S. wants that in the first place? Do you? There are risks with having democracy in a state of war with angry Arabs who have a large young population that is rather uneducated in many of the countries. I could have it wrong, but things are not that simple.

You can argue that Lebanon though there is a question as to if it is a state or not has a form of a democracy. I can't think of another country that is somewhat close to a democracy. I think that with the absence of conflict both the Jews and Arabs can progress. As it stands now, Israel is going backwards at the moment, and the Arabs are stagnanting, at the least. That isn't good for the American people or the world, IMHO.

bucheon bum · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

I'd be a little worried if I were Israeli for two reasons.

1. The religious right continues to gain strength.
2. Demographics do not favor Israel. The arab populations are growing quicker, and the nutball right-wing jewish population produces a lot more offspring than the more moderate, secular-oriented population. That could become a rather lethal combo.

bucheon bum · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

On the other hand · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue

I find it a little bit odd that we're debating the lack of democracy in the arab world specifically. The only places that have had full democracy for any length of time are North America, western Europe, the antipodes, and(for about sixty years anyway) India and Japan. True, we've now got South Korea, Botswana, parts of Latin America and the British Caribbean on board as well, but there are still huge swaths of the world(Russia, China, Indochina, Southeast Asia, most of Africa, the Catholic Caribbean etc) that are either quasi-authoritarian or outright dictatorships.

And yet the lack of democracy in the arab world is talked about as if it were some freakish anomaly, crying out for an explanation.

bucheon bum · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

SEA?

What about:

Indonesia. Democratic for 10 years now.
Philippines. Democratic since 1986

And Malaysia might not be run by the UMNO for much longer, but I suppose it is still a bit "quasi-authoritarian".

Thailand has had it come and go. Certainly has had more of it than any Arab country.

TheUrbanMyth · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired

On the other hand · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue