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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| That's the difference, Tiger.... with a few exceptions, few of the jobs here are sweet, and also, Korea is NOT Japan. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Just as an aside, over here in Japan, they are advertising more and more for PhD people, and able to get them. It is almost manditory here that you have a MA specifically in esl, tesol, english, linguistics, etc...but due to competition and applicants, they are more and more asking for phd holders. It's ridiculous, but if you have the qualifications, the jobs are sweet and worth it. |
True.
Many schools command that new hires hold doctorates in an SLA / Education / Linguistics / TESOL related field.
I work with guys that are making $120, 000 U.S. a year. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="TECO
These Kroean, Taiwanese, Japanese students also do not want to do a GMAT test to get into a Canadian or U.S. grad school. They don't have the language skills to pass such a test. Australian universities don't require GMAT scores. After my experience in Australia doing my M.A., when someone tells me that they have an M.A. TESOL / Applied Linguistics from an Australian university I'm not all that impressed.
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Teco,
I think you mean the GRE. To my knowledge the only programs that requires a GMAT score is an MBA. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
back to this thesis stuff, a lot of us univs are getting out of making a thesis part of the requirements for a masters degree. i dont think there are many mba programs that require it, most require a project. where i got my ma in my dept there were 2 options a 30 credit ma with thesis (18 hours major, 6 minor, 6 hours thesis) and a 36 hour non thesis (21 major 15 minor or split minor) this option was great if you wanted to teach at the jr college level as with more course you could be able to teach in 2 fields. I had no "capstone course" but did have to survive a grueling oral exam
my wife also has an ma no thesis with 24 hours in her major and 12 in her minor and a day long written comp. if you are planning a phd straight from a ba you normally dont do a thesis.
i think korean univs need to get away from the idea if you did an ma you wrote a thesis. |
Why would an MBA degree require a thesis? It is an applied degree which basically contradicts the idea of doing a huge research paper. If you want to do a thesis you can just do an MSc in a business field. A thesis is pertinent to going into research areas, but an MBA gets little to no benefit from that.
If you don't do a small thesis in your BA you probably are not "as" competitive to get into good PhD programs. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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The theiss is an area where I am pretty clueless (as I have never thought I'd care). I had assumed that an MA always needed to write a thesis, so I was pleasantly surprised to find out that is not true anymore.
I had also assumed that a thesis was required at the end of your MA to go on and get a Ph.D.... but Tiger Beer, are you saying that, if you change schools to get your Ph.D., you will need to go back and take more MA courses first anyway?
I really am curious about this, because my current MA isn't a Ph.D track MA. I never assumed I'd want to move on to the Ph.D. So, if I should change my mind some day, would it be possible just to take a few more MA courses (lets say 2), write a thesis, and then get into a Ph.D. program somewhere? Or will I have to start back at the beginning of a whole new MA program? |
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withnail
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| If you do an MA without a thesis, you'll almost certainly have to do a credit-bearing module on research methods before proceeding to ph.d. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Just Treat Us Like Equals: Foreign Professors
from The Marmot's Hole by Robert Koehler
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/19/just-treat-us-like-equals-foreign-professors
Also at Naver News on 2007-09-04
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LPOD&mid=etc&oid=135&aid=0000001081
article link: http://www.sisapress.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=44134
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In last week's Sisa Journal, Noh Jin-seop examined the state of foreign professors at Korean universities, who apparently feel themselves to be "ghosts" whom are not treated as equal to their Korean colleagues.
In fact, said the piece, they are often treated as if they don't exist -- they are outcasts, or wangtta who are completely excluded from the administration of their own departments.
Even with their masters and doctorates, they're treated no different from hagwon instructors, leading a growing number of qualified professors to leave Korea, negating efforts on the part of the nation's educational authorities to globalize Korean universities.
On Aug 28, the reporter met with a Prof. Ferguson (fake name), a professor at a Seoul university. When the journalist suggested they meet in the professor's office, the professor responded that he didn't have a personal office. Ferguson, with a Ph.D in linguistics from a US university, had been teaching at the university for eight years, and was an associate professor in the English literature department, but he complained of "unfair conditions" because his hair and skin color was different. He noted that even Korean professors who came after him received personal offices, but foreign professors needed to share a communal office, which the reporter said was more akin to a "reading room" where students study. Some 20 professors shared the space, and desks lacked computers and telephones.... |
Foreign scholars merit equal status: The foreign professor -- colleague or hired hand?
John B. Kotch, JoongAng Ilbo (June 14, 2002)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=1904927
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| According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect.... |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Juregen dismissively replied:
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| If you don't like the deal, don't sign it. |
It's not the issue, now is it? The point of the thread is that it's getting increasingly difficult to find suitable positions. Despite the rapid devaluation of the Korean won, there has been no corresponding adjustment in pay.
Moreover, most Korean universities treat their foreign staff like glorified hagwon workers but often pay twice the salary to their Korean staff.
It is salary apartheid which an old-time poster (forgot his username) has amply documented over the past few years on this forum. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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PRtragic wrote:
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| If you have your MA, certifications, and experience, Korean universities actually pay as well or better than positions in N. America IF, and this is a big IF, you can get one of the few remaining jobs left for professionals. |
That depends entirely on the qualifications required for the position and the university's pay scale, as well as the average cost-of-living in the state or locale where the university resides. As usual, you're talking out of your caboose.
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| For Ph.D. holders, positions in Korea, again, pay on par with what one would make in N. America (current devasting slide in the won aside). And truth be told, you can bank a lot more here than you'd be able to in the US or Canada based on salary rates despite the won crash. |
To borrow one of my favorite British English expressions, this is utter rubbish. An assistant professor at many universities makes much more in the U.S. and the best national universities in Korea can't hold a candle in terms of salary scale to their American counterparts. Anyone who's scoured The Chronicle of Higher Education online, the preeminent source for academic hirings in North America and East Asia on a regular basis would know this.
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| Ewha, for example just started a new grad program in ESL teaching, and they are looking to hire either Ph.D.s or uber qualified MA holders. |
I'm sure it will be a fine program. But what is the salary offer?
To all newbies:
And one must distinguish between teaching assignments in a uni-hagwon, work in a three-year degree vocational college English department, and work in a nationally ranked four-year baccalaureate granting program for non-English majors and for English majors. Unfortunately, MA holders are hard-pressed to garner positions in graduate level TESOL programs, which have the fewest contact hours and highest salaries, plus the most capable students.
My former colleagues work for 3.5 to 6.0 million won per month teaching 12 hours per week have seen a 40% devaluation in their salaries when converting to currency to deposit monies in their home countries. And that's an issue we haven't even addressed on this board very much. |
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Insidejohnmalkovich
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: Pusan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Why should anyone expect a high salary for a university job? The supply of teachers for such positions will always keep the salaries low, because:
1. It is more prestigious and better for your resume.
2. You do not have to deal with children's mothers.
3. You do not have to discipline or entertain little children.
4. You can date beautiful young women. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Insidejohnmalkovich wrote: |
4. You can date beautiful young women. |
I hope you are joking, if you not you are part of the problem with the crap rep etc foreign teachers have here.
If anybody at a univ is doing I have one piece of advice: LEAVE!!!! you are no better than the guys who date bargirls in thailand and expect the relationship to last |
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michaelambling
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Location: Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
PRtragic wrote:
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| If you have your MA, certifications, and experience, Korean universities actually pay as well or better than positions in N. America IF, and this is a big IF, you can get one of the few remaining jobs left for professionals. |
That depends entirely on the qualifications required for the position and the university's pay scale, as well as the average cost-of-living in the state or locale where the university resides. As usual, you're talking out of your caboose.
| Quote: |
| For Ph.D. holders, positions in Korea, again, pay on par with what one would make in N. America (current devasting slide in the won aside). And truth be told, you can bank a lot more here than you'd be able to in the US or Canada based on salary rates despite the won crash. |
To borrow one of my favorite British English expressions, this is utter rubbish. An assistant professor at many universities makes much more in the U.S. and the best national universities in Korea can't hold a candle in terms of salary scale to their American counterparts. Anyone who's scoured The Chronicle of Higher Education online, the preeminent source for academic hirings in North America and East Asia on a regular basis would know this. |
When you factor in the free housing, pension, and lower tax rate, I'll be taking more home at my university job than I would have if Columbia had hired me (the bastards!)
Well, I was a couple of weeks ago before the exchange rate soured... |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| NoExplode wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
I actually coined the term "unigwon."
There is a Korean word for the hagwon-style non-departmental jobs. They don't always include being farmed-out to teach kiddies. It totally depends on the school. Ours doesn't do that. We actually teach some of the English department classes, too. |
...and I invented the term, "Shnizzle."
Proof? Link? Should be easily verifiable via google/results by date. |
I think it was Leibnez type of discovery. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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michaelambling imagined:
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| When you factor in the free housing, pension, and lower tax rate, I'll be taking more home at my university job than I would have if Columbia had hired me |
Utter rubbish piled in a bigger heap. Average salary for an Ivy League professor is about $85,000 per annum, which doesn't include royalties from books, travel expenses to conferences, department supply budgeting, and a nice juicy year of sabbitical with pay every so often.
Not to mention salary parity, a better quality of life, more prestige, students who are fluent in the language, bigger and better housing (including garbage disposals and dishwashers, yards, etc.) and so forth. |
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Al Khidr
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I skimmed through this thread so maybe I missed it, but another problem with many uni positions is that they kick you out after 3 years. A few keep you on longer, but most get rid of you through mandatory contract limits. I've heard it was to avoid tenure, but this can't be the real reason as the lecturers aren't teaching content classes that would make them qualified for tenure. The real reason seems to me to be for the uni to avoid paying into the employee's private pension which kicks in at four years. Some guys I know were told they had to leave their uni after three years but then were hired back at a semester-by-semester basis to avoid paying into the pension. But the laws on these pensions changed a year and a half ago, so I don't know how this affects the hiring term limit. Anyone know about this?
Another point missed is that many of these universities do have hagwons that they expect their "professors" to work in. When I was working in a uni in Busan I taught uni students until afternoons, then I taught a kid's class in the afternoon. Also, I was always being asked to do editing and proofreading for Korean profs. The uni put out a textbook put together by foreign staff who were paid a lousy 300,000 won each for writing the book. |
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