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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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This thread started 4 months ago. I was more in my 'trust 'em 'cause we don't have a choice' mode. I'm still not ready to say Paulson lied, but I would be open to someone charging him with incompetence. His was not a stellar performance. I'm uncomfortable with seeing evil in someone right off.
mises, I'll give you that appointing a 35-year old is odd, but maybe there is more to the story? Could there have been philosophical differences between Paulson and Gross?
The important thing is that TARP hasn't worked so far. From what I hear, Geithner was supposed to have presented his policy this week, but Obama decided not to announce it and step all over the stimulus bill (in the news). The only thing I can gather from that is that they don't feel it's an emergency at this moment, like everyone was saying last Sept/Oct.
Kuros, it's only been 13 days. Isn't it a little soon to be writing Obama off? Some wise politician somewhere, somewhen, said, "Never watch sausage and laws being made". To add to that, 'a president proposes, Congress disposes'. Obama is clearly trying hard to be a compromiser--not only with the GOP but with all wings of his own party. And compromise means it isn't perfect; it's what you can live with. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| I would rather they choose Warren Buffett to do this. He is an economic conservative and social liberal. What's going on over here? |
I agree. If we are going to put our future on the line...then lets put it on Warren. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
This thread started 4 months ago. I was more in my 'trust 'em 'cause we don't have a choice' mode. I'm still not ready to say Paulson lied, but I would be open to someone charging him with incompetence. His was not a stellar performance. I'm uncomfortable with seeing evil in someone right off.
mises, I'll give you that appointing a 35-year old is odd, but maybe there is more to the story? Could there have been philosophical differences between Paulson and Gross?
The important thing is that TARP hasn't worked so far. From what I hear, Geithner was supposed to have presented his policy this week, but Obama decided not to announce it and step all over the stimulus bill (in the news). The only thing I can gather from that is that they don't feel it's an emergency at this moment, like everyone was saying last Sept/Oct.
Kuros, it's only been 13 days. Isn't it a little soon to be writing Obama off? Some wise politician somewhere, somewhen, said, "Never watch sausage and laws being made". To add to that, 'a president proposes, Congress disposes'. Obama is clearly trying hard to be a compromiser--not only with the GOP but with all wings of his own party. And compromise means it isn't perfect; it's what you can live with. |
It's unfortunate that more people aren't listening to Ron Paul. To many people are scared of letting the sacred cow die. It's the only way to a true recovery. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Why do I get this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that the last years of my life are going to be spent wearing burlap pants, living in a cardboard box under the Des Moines River bridge, warming my hands over burning books, selling apples on the street and having to listen to interminable sermons about how suffering builds character while waiting for a soup kitchen handout and having to thank Sts. R. Paul and R. Reagan for the privilege? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
mises, I'll give you that appointing a 35-year old is odd, but maybe there is more to the story? Could there have been philosophical differences between Paulson and Gross?
The important thing is that TARP hasn't worked so far. |
There could have been philosophical differences, yes. That doesn't mean you pick a mimbo for the job.
Anyways, TARP didn't work because it can't work. Check out the hole:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/dan-roberts-on-business-blog/interactive/2009/jan/29/financial-pyramid
I'm not blaming this at all on Obama. He inherited a mess. But I'd like to see him use that spine of steel Biden talked about. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:38 am Post subject: |
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This guy gets it:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/85106daa-f140-11dd-8790-0000779fd2ac.html
By the by, he made an excellent TV series (based on an even more excellent book) called The Ascent of Money. PBS has it online for free. I strongly recommend it.
Ya-ta, this is a 'soft depression'. All will return to something near normal in 18-24 months. I wouldn't read more into this than that. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Why do I get this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that the last years of my life are going to be spent wearing burlap pants, living in a cardboard box under the Des Moines River bridge, warming my hands over burning books, selling apples on the street and having to listen to interminable sermons about how suffering builds character while waiting for a soup kitchen handout and having to thank Sts. R. Paul and R. Reagan for the privilege? |
Ron Paul?? How do you figure? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Watchdog: Treasury overpaid for bank stocks
WASHINGTON (AP) - A government watchdog group says the federal government overpaid for stocks and other assets from financial institutions under its $700 billion rescue program.
The chairwoman of the Congressional Oversight Panel for the bailout funds told the Senate Banking committee Thursday that Treasury in 2008 paid $254 billion and received assets worth about $176 billion. |
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D965HBF80&show_article=1
And now Obama is playing with fear:
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| WASHINGTON � President Barack Obama warned on Thursday that failure to act on an economic recovery package could plunge the nation into a long-lasting recession that might prove irreversible, a fresh call to a recalcitrant Congress to move quickly. |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress_stimulus_126 |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Why do I get this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that the last years of my life are going to be spent wearing burlap pants, living in a cardboard box under the Des Moines River bridge, warming my hands over burning books, selling apples on the street and having to listen to interminable sermons about how suffering builds character while waiting for a soup kitchen handout and having to thank Sts. R. Paul and R. Reagan for the privilege? |
Ron Paul?? How do you figure? |
When economies get bad voters get strange and do wacky things, like elect radicals. In my paranoid moments I envision the economy imploding totally and the GOP going all Paulista on us under the banner of Sarah Palin, media queen, cutting all social programs and beating old people to death with a cross of gold. As I said, in my paranoid moments.
More seriously, I am concerned about radical political movements getting a leg up in this economic crisis. There are reports from a number of countries about 'buying local'. I see that as an unhealthy nationalism. It's not impossible that some leader somewhere could decide a little war would be good for the economy and then it getting out of hand. I don't think it's just because I'm getting old--economic instability breeds social and political instability, and that concerns me. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| It's not impossible that some leader somewhere could decide a little war would be good for the economy and then it getting out of hand. |
I wonder where they would get that idea:
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| What saved the economy, and the New Deal, was the enormous public works project known as World War II, which finally provided a fiscal stimulus adequate to the economy�s needs. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/opinion/10krugman.html?_r=1
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| More seriously, I am concerned about radical political movements getting a leg up in this economic crisis. |
Have you considered that maybe the 'radical political movements' are already under our noses? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder where they would get that idea:
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I was thinking more along the lines of that little island down in the Caribbean.....ah yes, Grenada. I don't like to mention that other discomfort (1939...); it gives people ideas I'd rather they not think about. Besides, it wasn't our idea.
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| Have you considered that maybe the 'radical political movements' are already under our noses? |
That's just the trouble: I have. What's worse is that I taught high school--I know how gullible all too many people can be. (2 trivial examples: I'm mortified to think there is the possibility there are some former students wandering around who think Abraham Lincoln was our first Jewish president. [His name was Abraham, isn't it? In my defense, it was said in revenge to a student who had earlier said something anti-Semitic.] I'm fairly certain there are more than one who believes Pepper Land is a real place. I single-handedly caused an upsurge in the sale of old Beatles albums.  ] |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Have you considered that maybe the 'radical political movements' are already under our noses? |
That's just the trouble: I have. What's worse is that I taught high school--I know how gullible all too many people can be. (2 trivial examples: I'm mortified to think there is the possibility there are some former students wandering around who think Abraham Lincoln was our first Jewish president. [His name was Abraham, isn't it? In my defense, it was said in revenge to a student who had earlier said something anti-Semitic.] I'm fairly certain there are more than one who believes Pepper Land is a real place. I single-handedly caused an upsurge in the sale of old Beatles albums. ] |
That almost makes me want to be a teacher.
Anyways, I reread what I wrote.. Sounds odd. I don't think that what we have is a radical political movement but the idea that half of American GDP should be spend trying to save a bunch of poorly run banks (run by very wealthy banksters) is radical.
Obama is getting very bad advice right now. More Volker, less Summers. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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More of Paulson's deceit/mismanagement revealed:
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The Bush administration received assets that were worth $78 billion less than the amount it invested as part of the massive infusion of capital into the country's banks, congressional investigators have found.
The investigators concluded that the Treasury under the federal bailout had invested $254 billion into companies but the preferred stock it got in return had a market value at the time of only $176 billion, or 69 percent of what the government paid, according to a congressional oversight panel report scheduled to be released today.
Elizabeth Warren, the chairwoman of the panel, said former Treasury secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had promised that the government would buy the assets at their proper value and that it was alarming that he didn't do so. "At various points, Treasury has articulated policy objectives which could result in a program involved paying substantially more for investments than they appear to have been worth at the time of the transaction," she said in written testimony submitted to the Senate Banking Committee yesterday. "The American people want to know what's going on and they deserve answers. |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/05/AR2009020503629.html?hpid=topnews |
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