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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:14 am Post subject: How relevant is TOEIC to Korean students? |
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What place does passing TOEIC test have on an upper level (middle/high/university) students ambitions?
Is TOEIC necessary for their college entrance exams? Is it needed to study abroad? Is it useful for securing a good job? What alternatives are there for a Korean student? Is there a conversational element to it (e.g. oral exam)? |
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John_ESL_White
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Many companies still use TOEIC test scores in determining eligibility for new hirees.
One company I'm familiar with has a 650 TOEIC min., for new employees.
Well, for 'certain' new employees they require TOEIC. They fluctuate requirements depending on the job. For example, an engineer who graduated from a great uni does not have to have a great TOEIC score because their engineering ability will greatly benefit the company.
But, I think for the majority of young graduates looking for a job, TOEIC is important.
Last edited by John_ESL_White on Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Nothing as the score expires before they could use it for a job. TEPS score can be used for uni. admissions but the biggest part is the KSAT. TOEIC is just studied at the junior level because mommy thinks their kid needs to study something for the future. Or she is following the other Kimberleys and micromanaging the kids life. |
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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Xuanzang wrote: |
| Nothing as the score expires before they could use it for a job. TEPS score can be used for uni. admissions but the biggest part is the KSAT. TOEIC is just studied at the junior level because mommy thinks their kid needs to study something for the future. Or she is following the other Kimberleys and micromanaging the kids life. |
What's KSAT?
If a Korean person is looking to travel abroad for work/study and converse with native speakers (or they work in Korea in an expat bar for example) then what type of test are they likely to be studying for?
Is there a standardized test that grades a persons conversational ability? |
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John_ESL_White
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Xuanzang wrote: |
| Nothing as the score expires before they could use it for a job. TEPS score can be used for uni. admissions but the biggest part is the KSAT. TOEIC is just studied at the junior level because mommy thinks their kid needs to study something for the future. Or she is following the other Kimberleys and micromanaging the kids life. |
I have no idea what, "Nothing as the score expires before they could use it for a job" means or anything else in the blurb Xuanzang wrote.... It's an enigma, like teaching English in Korea. So, back to the topic:
I, honestly, do not know what is required from universities outside of the US. I know that most west coast unis require their students to take the iBT TOEFL test before they can gain admittance. ( www. free-english.com <--- for a sample). Some east coast (USA) schools do not require a TOEFL score. They, probably, want an SAT score instead.
Do you have specific questions? I have a lot of experience with Korean kids going abroad for HS and uni. But, my experience is limited to the US and the Canadia. Get a little more specific and I'll help you as much as I can... |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Canadia is a beautiful country. I like Canadia. I want to meet some Canadiaians. |
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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| John_ESL_White wrote: |
Do you have specific questions? I have a lot of experience with Korean kids going abroad for HS and uni. But, my experience is limited to the US and the Canadia. Get a little more specific and I'll help you as much as I can... |
Thanks John, I appreciate it.  Skip the next paragraph for specific questions...
I teach children in a hagwon and would like to teach older students for my next contract. I was in the book store and noticed a lot of books that were geared for exams such as TOEIC etc. So, I'm interested in finding out about the different exam standards because I want to familiarize myself with the syllabus. I'm particularly interested in exams that test the ability to communicate competently with a native speaker because this is an area where I feel I have a distinguishing advantage over Korean teachers in Korea.
Question 1: Is there a standardized syllabus of English that I should familiarize myself with in order to maximize the opportunities of my upper-intermediate to higher level students?
Question 2: Is there a standardized syllabus of English that I should familiarize myself with because it recognizes the importance of realistic communication with a native speaker (rather than focusing on theory alone)? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| TOEIC has little relevance for school and most uni programmes, but can be important at a lot of companies. The CSAT is based more around TOEFL-based questions. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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[quote="tfunk"]
| John_ESL_White wrote: |
.
I teach children in a hagwon and would like to teach older students for my next contract. I was in the book store and noticed a lot of books that were geared for exams such as TOEIC etc. So, I'm interested in finding out about the different exam standards because I want to familiarize myself with the syllabus. I'm particularly interested in exams that test the ability to communicate competently with a native speaker because this is an area where I feel I have a distinguishing advantage over Korean teachers in Korea.
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ok - this is the deal and the reason I deleted the rest of your qs - the TOEIC is mostly just used here in K and for years it's only been a written test - I do believe they've added an oral competency part but am not sure - someone else can clarify that.
I've taught both students who were studying for it (high school, univ) and K E teachers. I recall one K E teacher who, in a teachers' class, remarked she usually received a 900 or so score on her test every year.
The other Ts thought that was really impressive and while she could manage to speak somewhat better than average, she was by no means fluent and her vocabulary was not even at a college level. For example, I have no doubt she'd have had a great deal of difficulty readying the New York Times newspaper at a normal pace and comprehending, much less discussing, front page stories.
The material the students study which is designed for the tests is extremely boring and academic.
Generally, TOEIC classes are taught by gyopos because parents prefer the students to have someone who can translate to their kids. This is necessary because of the high level of vocabulary that is used and the K students just don't have it.
If you are gyopo, then go for it; otherwise look before you leap - it might not be what you want after all. They aren't really looking for a native speaker so much as someone who can teach them how to beat the test.
TIK, learning the E language and speaking it competently is secondary to the test score. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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The TOEIC is not relevant for students - it's a test of business English. They generally study for it because it's a helluva lot easier than the TEPS or TOEFL.
The questions are generally brain-dead easy, basically to see if you have a fundamental grasp of the situation or have no idea. A listening question might be something like:
A: Jack, I need that report by 5.
B: _______________________
a. I'll report to you tomorrow.
b. No problem, I'm already done.
c. We go home at 5.
So getting over a 900, while not simple, is not nearly as hard as acing the other tests aforementioned. Also, I think the TOEIC is one of the few standardized English tests that most native speakers could actually ace.
As Xuanzang wrote, the TOEIC is worth nothing because the scores expire before they can be used for getting a job. What's hard to understand about that? The scores are only good for five years, and if a student takes the TOEIC at 15 and won't graduate from college until age 22, then the scores become invalid.
KSAT = Korean SAT or 수능. |
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John_ESL_White
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="moosehead"]
| tfunk wrote: |
| John_ESL_White wrote: |
.
I teach children in a hagwon and would like to teach older students for my next contract. I was in the book store and noticed a lot of books that were geared for exams such as TOEIC etc. So, I'm interested in finding out about the different exam standards because I want to familiarize myself with the syllabus. I'm particularly interested in exams that test the ability to communicate competently with a native speaker because this is an area where I feel I have a distinguishing advantage over Korean teachers in Korea.
|
ok - this is the deal and the reason I deleted the rest of your qs - the TOEIC is mostly just used here in K and for years it's only been a written test - I do believe they've added an oral competency part but am not sure - someone else can clarify that.
I've taught both students who were studying for it (high school, univ) and K E teachers. I recall one K E teacher who, in a teachers' class, remarked she usually received a 900 or so score on her test every year.
The other Ts thought that was really impressive and while she could manage to speak somewhat better than average, she was by no means fluent and her vocabulary was not even at a college level. For example, I have no doubt she'd have had a great deal of difficulty readying the New York Times newspaper at a normal pace and comprehending, much less discussing, front page stories.
The material the students study which is designed for the tests is extremely boring and academic.
Generally, TOEIC classes are taught by gyopos because parents prefer the students to have someone who can translate to their kids. This is necessary because of the high level of vocabulary that is used and the K students just don't have it.
If you are gyopo, then go for it; otherwise look before you leap - it might not be what you want after all. They aren't really looking for a native speaker so much as someone who can teach them how to beat the test.
TIK, learning the E language and speaking it competently is secondary to the test score. |
From what I understand (and I may be wrong about the writing), they've added a writing and speaking component to the test BUT it is optional and the vast majority of test takers do not do take the TOEIC with speaking and writing.
I believe that a good native English speaking teacher can teach TOEIC, TEPS, and even TOEFL reading to ESL learners as long as the learners are at an intermediate level. Teaching TOEIC, TEPS, or TOEFL to beginners is a nightmare and should be avoided at all cost. |
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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Do the parents have any objective way to measure the effectiveness of a foreign teacher? My impression from other teachers is that Koreans cram their children into hagwons because they they are competitive. The competition seems to be measured according to exam results.
If foreign teachers give no competitive cost advantage to students in exams then why are they pretty much a prerequisite in every hagwon? |
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