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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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 Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
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| Homer, do you think refusing entry to foreigners is racist, regardless of how it is justified |
Indeed I do Matko. But its more complicated then that my man....
Its just or as or even more racist to refuse entry to Koreans in bars that are in their own country.
But it still happens....
My point: there are plenty of Bars out there and in the end the owner of the establishment can do what he wants since it is his place.
He may hurt his business by doing so but its still his choice.
Were I to be refused entry or service in a bar or restaurant here I would move on to another place. The loss is theirs (losing a customer) not mine. |
I disagree with your point that a bar owner can do What he or she wants in their establishment just because it is theirs.
You're a smart guy. Think about it. You are saying that laws and morality are thrown out the window if you walk into a private establishment. A bar owner can do what they want in their place?
I know Korea is not NA, but come on man! |
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Homer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:58 am Post subject: |
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No Matko,
I am not saying that at all.
I am saying that a bar owner can choose to refuse service to any customer he chooses. thats his basic right as an owner.
I do not think thats right but it is true.
My choice faced with this would be to move on to another place.
The moral issue is there of course but in the end the owner has final say as to who he is willing to serve, a sad but true reality.
Also, as I mentionned earlier the owner of a bar might have other reasons then racism for refusing service to foreigners. Perhaps the bad actions of a few morons had a negative effect on others by making the owner refuse service to wae guks....we just don't know do we?
There was bar in Busan that refused service to foreigners because in a 4 week period there were 6 brawls involving G.I.'s.
Now does this mean all G.I.'s are bad..nope...but you can understand why the owner would take measures.... |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:03 am Post subject: |
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ONLY IN KOREA!!!!
this country is WHACKED!!! thirdworld mantality living in a fast running to be a first world country!!!
the governments are so corrupted they dont organize the little things that make a big difference to foreigners.. koreans will always been seen in bad way! doesnt matter what acheivments they present. they will still be judged how they treat others!!!
koreans have alot of growing up to do!!!! |
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HardyandTiny
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Kalhoun wrote: |
| kangnam mafioso wrote: |
there are several places in itaewon that are korean only or foreigner only or at least used to be that way.
the nashville used to be western-only (except for some korean staff).
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........ There is a sign as you enter that says no Koreans allowed.
Kalhoun |
I'm going to check that out tomorrow.
where is that sign? I've never seen that. |
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HardyandTiny
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
No Matko,
I am not saying that at all.
I am saying that a bar owner can choose to refuse service to any customer he chooses. thats his basic right as an owner.
I do not think thats right but it is true. |
Yeap, that's corrrect. It happens in the USA also.
The bar has the right to refuse service, BUT they have to have a legitimate reason.
However, it can't be because I'm not an American citizen. |
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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Homer,
It is not a basic right of an owner to refuse service to a whole group of people based on the actions of a few!
I'm losing respect for you by the second.  |
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Homer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: |
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what? your losing respect for me? 
Holycow..what ever will I do 
This is horrible news...I cannot live with myself knowing that someone I have never met is losing respect for me... 
Good god matko...you leveled me here 
Ok back to reality...
I did not say it was right Matko...you need to read again.
I said the bar owner can refuse service to..oh hell nevermind.
If the owner had problems with a certain group of people, a recurrant problem, one that came up often, then he might ***DISCLAIMER: he might..repeat might*** feel its better to refuse service to people from that group.
It aint right
It aint nice
It still happens.
Deal with it. |
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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Why should one deal with it?
Why shouldn't one complain?
You seem to be condoning racism.
Why? |
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HardyandTiny
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| matko wrote: |
Why should one deal with it?
Why shouldn't one complain?
You seem to be condoning racism.
Why? |
Matko, have you ever stood outside a club in a big city in the west and been refused to be let in simply because you did not look "cool"?
Many restaurants can legally refuse you access simply because you are not wearing a tie or collar.
This type of policy is not new to anyone.
Does Korea go a step further and base it upon your ethnicity? YES! But this is Korea! It's their rules!
I was once in a bar in New York and the guy refused to serve me. When I asked him why he said he didn't have to tell me why. I had not done anything wrong, but still, he just did not want to serve me.
I left the place and moved on to the next gin mill.
This is not unusual.
There is not much you can do other than realize that a bar or club is not a public space. It's a private establishment and the local cops are not going to back you up.............just move on. |
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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Jesus friggin Christ!! Don't you see the difference between serving a drunk and denying service to a person SOLEY base on his or her colour of skin?
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| But this is Korea! It's their rules! |
Hey, can't I argue that the rules are unfair?
Should I shut up? ESPECIALLY since I live in JAPAN now.
What's your point?
I truly don't understand if you're defending racism or not?
Are you?
And no, I've never been refused service in any other countries other than Japan and Korea.
If anybody were to be refused service in Canada, I would be just as vehement!!
People who accept racist and bigoted behaviour as a cultural trait are STUPID and RETARDED in my opinion.
Keep it up.
You guys have lost all credibility in my eyes.
Last edited by matko on Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| These incidents seem isolated. Me and my friends have never been refused service anywhere here. But thats just our experience. |
So because these incidents have never happened to you they "seem isolated"? That's absurdly self referential, but actually rather typical of you Homer, your whole schtick on here is "I'm having a good time so there's nothing wrong here"
One might reasonably presume that if there is a venue that refuses foreigners but does not advertise this fact in the newspaper, that a steady string of foreigners in fact try to go in and learn the policy first hand. They just don't happen to post on here.
Bars and clubs are private places yes, and the owner can refuse entry, but they can't refuse entry on the basis of race alone, that's illegal.
| Quote: |
Also, not to justify the refusal, but perhaps the owner had problems with foreigners coming to his bar in the past (fights and such). |
That's like saying "Not to justify the refusal but excuse me while I justify the refusal. What lengths are you not prepared to go to defend the racism in this country?
Regarding the fact that establishments also deny Koreans, that too is sanctioned by the KOREAN government, and is just another expression of the way this country tolerates and even institutionalises racism.
[/quote] |
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The King of Kwangju
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
I am saying that a bar owner can choose to refuse service to any customer he chooses. thats his basic right as an owner.
I do not think thats right but it is true. |
Is it his "basic right?" I'm not so sure he has that right, as least as far as the law is concerned.
I seem to remember that some Americans once claimed the same "right" when it came to refusing service to blacks. Some people stood up to them and they were forced to do otherwise. |
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HardyandTiny
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| matko wrote: |
Jesus friggin Christ!! Don't you see the difference between serving a drunk and denying service to a person SOLEY base on his or her colour of skin?
| Quote: |
| But this is Korea! It's their rules! |
Hey, can't I argue that the rules are unfair?
Should I shut up? ESPECIALLY since I live in JAPAN now.
What's your point?
I truly don't understand if you're defending racism or not?
Are you?
And no, I've never been refused service in any other countries other than Japan and Korea.
If anybody were to be refused service in Canada, I would be just as vehement!!
People who accept racist and bigoted behaviour as a cultural trait are STUPID and RETARDED in my opinion.
Keep it up.
You guys have lost all credibility in my eyes. |
I am not defending racism at all.
I THINK I'm being realistic.
And I think you also know that you can't just walk inot into bar or restaurant in this world.
I think the Korean nightclubs policies are racist for sure, but that is not unusual, and I see this as a problem all over the world and not just in Korea. |
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Psy
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: Hongdae
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:52 am Post subject: |
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I say we gang up and find these places and burn them to the ground.  |
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HardyandTiny
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
Bars and clubs are private places yes, and the owner can refuse entry, but they can't refuse entry on the basis of race alone, that's illegal.
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But that is not true in Korea! They CAN deny you entry in Korea because you are not Korean and there is nothing you can do about it!
They can't do that at the Hyatt Hotel, but they may do that at some hotel discos and you can't do much about it, because this is not your country and you do not control those things.
Why waste time fighting about this when there are so many alternative places to go to? |
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