Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Sean02]

This formation in English has got me thinking more than any other and I've included a link below to a file of notes I've used to base lessons on.

The basic rule in English is that to show agreement you say what the other speaker is saying. The confusion arises when they're saying no, and 100 times out of 100 Koreans (as with those speaking other languages without this feature) will respond by saying yes to agree.

This as I'm sure you know is not just confusing but often makes it entirely impossible to know what's being said, and it happens in conversation several times a minute, often every few seconds.

It also feels bizarre (like so much else in Korea) when speakers have got up to a good standard yet can't get yes and no right- the very first two words you learn. Because it's so fundamental this thing can be hard to convey, and despite my efforts I haven't really been able to teach it anyone: in fact my Korean teachers' response has been that it's just far to difficult to understand(!).

Anyway, as an example (B showing agreement with A)-

A. John likes soccer.

B. Yes.

A. But Susan doesn't like it.

B. No.

No just confuses the hell out of them, as their invariable yes does for me.

What I'd be very interested in is how other languages can possibly get along without this feature. In English a string of yess stay meaning yes, but, unlike in mathematics or logic, a string of nos likewise stay meaning no. (So we say Yes it is, yes or No it isn't, no- not Yes it isn't, yes.)

In conversation Koreans will say yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, vigorously nodding and shaking their heads as they try and think logically, instead of just keep saying no. How does their own language work??? They obviously don't say yes-no-yes-no and get in a tangle (so why do they do it in English?)

http://www.box.net/shared/ahdp2fxach

[Sean02]

More examples- they�ll say yes instead of no to So you don�t come to school by train? (ie Yes, that�s true, I don�t.) or when the computer seems to be broken It�s not working? (Yes, it isn�t.) or when we�re out of coffee There�s no coffee? (Yes, no.).

A good one was: Korean- The rainy season ends in July. me: So, there�s no rain in August? Korean No, no., leaving it at that for a few moments. He then added We can get heavy rain and typhoons.

Another- Have you been to England, No? Korean- No. (- when they had, thinking No- it�s not true that I haven�t- I have).

Also once I went to another room to use my computer and sat in a seat already being used: when the unfriendly and non-English speaker teacher returned I asked if I could sit there, smiling and alternately nodding and shaking my head to suggest to him the two possible answers to the question, which I knew he understood: instead of choosing a reply that matched one of mine he waited for me to switch from nodding to shaking then nodded furiously.

Another one at immigration might be

Are you carrying any prohibited foods?

No.

No knives?

Yes.

Guns?

Yes.

Drugs?

Yes.

[Hyeon Een]

I find it quite easy to teach by writing the following on the board:

You didn't do your homework, did you?

"Yes" X
"No" 0

Yes = Yes I did do my homework
No = No, I didn't do my homework



My students usually understand the concept involved straight away with the above example but need a bit of practice to start answering negative questions correctly without too much stumbling.

[22tea77]

Great thread!!

I attempted to do a lesson on this concept without thoroughly confusing my low level Middle School Students. I tried to keep it simple. I started with an actual conversation I once had with a co teacher:

CT: There's no school on Tuesday
Me: (shocked) There's no school on Tuesday????
CT: Yes.
Me: Oh...so there IS school on Tuesday.
CT: No!
Me: Oh...so there's no school on Tuesday???
CT: Yes!

and so on and so on.

I then kept it simple by teaching the students to respond to requests for confirmations with a "no" and a repeated statement:

CT: There's no school on Tuesday.
Me: (shocked) There's no school on Tuesday???
CT: No, there's no school on Tuesday.

It seemed to work. Every class I usually throw something at the students out of the blue like

Me: How was school on Sunday?
Students: We didn't have school on Sunday.
Me: (shocked) You didn't have school on Sunday?
A few students: Yes.
Other students: (loudly) NO, WE DIDN'T HAVE SCHOOL ON SUNDAY!!!!!

Sean02, I LOVE the immigration example. That really captures the essence of how such a simple thing can create such a huge problem! Thanks!!!!

[Sean02]

[Sean02]

Many thanks 22tea77- good to read others' experience of this thing: it must cause untold confusion across the world.

You notice though that

No, there's no school on Tuesday

is not logical: there are two nos, which for Koreans hence may read No, it's not the case that there's no school on Tuesday.

They need to get the idea that you match no with no to show agreement- which they just don't get at all in my experience.

[Sean02]

22tea77

By the way I believe it's happened in courts of law as well, causing very serious problems...

[Sean02]

No further thoughts on this folks? It's just that I find it such a truly enormous issue- this formation almost dominates every conversation I have with Koreans, and I've become acutely aware of it so that I find strategies to avoid it (rather than bother trying to correct them).

[antoniothegreat]

it's really quite simple. we attach our yes and no to the verb and if it has a negative, a statement will ALWAYS have a no, n't or not in it (Q:do you like fish? A: no, i doN'T)

they use yes and no as agreement or disagreement to the question or statement. so if the question has a negative it can be quite confusing.

example

Don't you like fish?

english answer yes, i like fish or no i dont like fish (no is always with the negative)

korean answer
yes, i dont like fish (yes to agree with your question)
no, i like fish (no to disagree with your question)

understanding this will make it so much easier to communicate.

so using the above poster's exampe...
are you bringing in any druge?
NO (i dont have any)

no guns?
yes (i dont have any)

[Sean02]

[Sean02]

[ernie]

my preferred solution is to respond 'correct' or 'incorrect', instead of yes or no.
Q: So you're not carrying any knives, drugs, or explosives?
A: Correct.

i find the only way to use yes or no with a negative question and be clear is to repeat the question after saying yes or no.
Q: Don't you like kimchi?
A: No, I don't (like kimchi).

[Sean02]

Sure thing.

However, the word No at the start of No, I don't like kimchi has already deeply confused them by the time you've finished saying those five words.

And as I said a few posts back, there is a double negative here- No, I don't... logically means yes.

[Sean02]

Don't mind me bumping this thread.

It's just that this formation is such a fundamental feature of the language- you hardly have even a very short conversation, say a momentary meeting in the corridor with a Korean English teacher, without this happening, and the Korean getting in a mess over yesing/nodding and noing/shaking head, confusing themselves and you.

In the flow of conversation I'd estimate the negative question or statement comes up between once and and ten times every minute.

Don't many of you even notice???

[Sean02]

And you're welcome to download my lesson notes, from the link at the base of the first post here.