Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Demonicat]

I'm willing to say it, you have some good ideas. You'd be alright...if you quit calling people peasants- America was founded, created, and raised by peasants. Its our lineage, *beep* the royals.

[mises]

I don't really know what to say to that.

[nathanrutledge]

The bill is garbage.

First, what issue are we trying to address here? The housing market which crashed? The credit market which rear ended the pile up that was the housing market? The recession that came after (officially recognized after)? In any case, none of these issues are being addressed.

The 700+ billion dollars in the bill is actually only a few hundred billion in actual dollar outlays, with the other 500+ billion being dollars lost by tax cuts and incentives. But of that 200 billion or so, we're spending 1 billion on the Army, 650 million on the Navy, and around another billion on the Marines and Air Force for modernization. How does that stimulate the economy?

There is a few billion dollars to expand WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) as well as different food programs. Sure, in these tough times, that is nice, but again, how does that stimulate the economy? More specifically, how do these spending items affect the housing market, the credit market, or the recession overall? They don't! The military modernization might create a few jobs in the defense sector, but hardly enough to warrant being called stimulus.

This bill is not pork, as so many people have claimed (pork being pet projects for certain congressional districts), as it is just a giant spending bill. There is a few billion dollars for law enforcement agencies, local, state, and federal. Money for higher education, WITH THE STIPULATION that it NOT be used to improve facilities. Stabilize tuition yes, create construction jobs, no?

Demonicat, your challenge:

The best thing that the Federal government can do is let the banks fail. The money that was lost was never really there. Why should tax payers pump real money into these banks to replace imaginary money? I have been out of college a few years, yet I still have a nice chunk of change I have saved. How? Discipline. This downturn hasn't destroyed me. Why? I read the disclaimers - " NOT FDIC GUARANTEED, CAN LOSE VALUE" and I don't keep everything in the same basket. So, why should I bail out people who DID put everything in the same basket? Why should my self discipline be PUNISHED by others opulence and short sightedness?

The stimulus bill (increased government borrowing) will crowd out private investment, thus reducing our future productive capacity (Solow Growth Model) and won't necessarily HARM the future, but it will slow the recovery. If the government wants to do some good, they should:

1. Lower the reserve ratio at banks temporarily.
2. Cut spending and taxes so that people can keep their own money and spend it as they please.
3. Improve social welfare programs. People are going to get hurt in this, stimulus or not. Investment in technical (and I use this term loosely) training, after school programs, etc.
4. NOT alter free trade agreements. How can we sell our products overseas if we don't buy their products? If they don't have our money, how do they buy our products? One of the most offensive things in this bill is the stipulation that we only use American steel. Bush slapped tariffs on Chinese steel, and now Obama is banning it's use in stimulus projects... all this does is make it harder to sell OUR products, thus reducing the demand, and in effect cutting peoples jobs. With one hand we give auto companies billions to save jobs and with the other we take those very jobs away. Brilliant!

I've started to lose my train of thought here, so I'll regroup and add more.

BTW, the economy we are in is NOT the worst since the Great Depression, and I DID live in the United States during the recession in 2001 and did quite well at not going into debt, thank you. Discipline people, discipline!

[Ya-ta Boy]

A good deal of the money will be spent to take people off unemployment and put them to work repairing the roads & bridges, etc. Some of them will even move out of parks and into apartments. All of them will buy clothes and more food than before, get haircuts and go to doctors. The bill alone will not solve the whole problem, but it's a good effort.

It may be enough to jolt people back into a sense of security enough to start spending again--although not just living off credit cards, which was a very bad idea.

My biggest fear about the bill is that some of the fat cats will syphon off the money for their trips to Cancun and cause enough scandals to ruin a good program.

One of the best parts of the bill is discussed here: http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2009/02/14/economic_stimulus_bill/

"Perhaps the most important thing in the bill is that it contains language that allows renewable-energy developers to get cash grants in exchange for the tax credits, a crucial provision in the time of economic downturn, when companies don't have profits against which to take a tax credit," said Salon contributor Joseph Romm, who served in the Clinton administration's Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy within the Department of Energy. "I think the provisions in this bill will allow Obama to keep his difficult but important commitment to double renewable energy in his first term."

It's about time! The country has been dithering about this for 30 years.

I'm jealous of Korea's mass transit system and would like to see ours upgraded to be similar in quality and convenience.

[djsmnc]

I think the US should instead shut down all imports and create a non interventionist policy. Then they should start all over from square one and open manufacturing plants. Any companies that have outsourced will be required to stay there and their CEO's permanently deported. If they aren't accepted as citizens then they can be like Tom Hanks in The Terminal. People without proven debilitating handicaps who don't want to work will have to accept that they just won't get money. Period. English will need to be declared the national language of business and other languages will be acceptable so long as they are not used for the purpose of workplace communication with people who are native English speakers. Anyone who is unhappy with the conditions will be free to travel or move in and out of the country at their leisure and self-made financial ability to work abroad.

[djsmnc]

And the term 'jus soli' should be considered an outmoded word to describe an archaic former legal clause.

[Dude Ranch]

[DC in Suwon]

This isn't an exact science. There's no rulebook or user's manual to figure out how to get U.S. out of the mess they're in.

[Demonicat]

Alright, its easy to talk about "good medicine" or "discipline" while you are sitting in a warm, comfortable paid for apartment in Korea, but could you say that to the face of an autoworker, out of work for 3 months, whose unemployment is running out? Could you say that to an elderly couple who had their retirement invested by AIG, into multiple varied stocks, but now are without a dime? Could you say it to the recent college graduate who, with $50,000 of debt on his back, can't get a job?

Its easy to be a bad ass when you get all expenses paid just for speaking English, but if you're like the majority of Americans right now- you're a bit more concerned with making ends meet.


Now that the emotional "wtf is wrong with you" over with, let me apply to your logic. The US cannot let the banks fail or become an isolationist nation. Our banks, industries, and way of life is entirely interconnected with the global community. To let the banks fail is to completely crash Europe as our banks were heavily invested in European banks. Becoming isolationist would destroy our quality of living as well as our economy. It just would not work.

I suppose the most important thing that could be said is that its not just the United States suffering. Most of the world is suffering from this crashing economy. We all need to work together to rebuild it or suffer the consequences.

PS: Not important, just curious, how many of you are actually from America? I am. From Washington Dc.

[pkang0202]

Here's a question for everyone:

The Stimulus Bill is a temporary measure. It gives a lot of funding to places that need it.

The problem with doling out money is that its NEVER ENOUGH. What's going to happen in 3-4 years when a lot of the incentives/programs/grants expire?

[Demonicat]

The hope is by that point jobs will be created/secured and people will feel confident in commercial spending. The US economy is based 2/3 on commercial spending, so a return to normal levels would effectively restore the US.

[Rusty Shackleford]

[ReeseDog]

[Jeff's Cigarettes]

This will be forever known as pulling a Lewinsky on the Federal Reserve. If Clinton ever took a hit like that in the Oval Office, his balls would have ended up skidding down a runway in Guam.

[Dude Ranch]

one odd thing I've noticed is that as you all know daves esl cafe is full of nut cases (myself included) but for some odd reason there is actually a high level of economic knowledge on here from some of the members, in some cases. I've noticed it in other posts as well.

funny how that works out