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| Will the Stimulus Work? |
| Economic Saviour |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Something needs to be done |
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45% |
[ 14 ] |
| Disaster |
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51% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
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The Obama Ponzi economics plan will destroy far more jobs than it will create. The Bush/Obama admins have followed the Hoover/Roosevelt admins with uncanny precision.
We know that FDR caused the Great Depression to last an additional 7 years, from 1936 to 1943, when it finally ended. This is now undisputed by real economists. FDR made the Great Depression "Great."
We also know that Hoover/the Smoot-Hawley tariff/FDR by massively intervening in the economy and slashing international trade turned what would have been just a short recession into a depression.
Now, Bush/Obama have done it again. Massive wartime spending by Bush, massive deficits, massive bailouts and spending, and now Obama's massive deficit pork spending. All of these bills based on debt have and will reduce employment today and in the future.
The only way we can get any real recovery is when the private sector has enough money through direct savings by small entrepreneurs, and investment through stock or bond aquisition by other investors to create real jobs and overcome what the government has done.
The impediments are greater now, unfortunately, because the Ponzi economists keep insisting that the government must "do something." However, everything they have proposed, and everything the have managed to pass into law will make things worse. There are things they could "do" to make things better. But, they are Ponzi economists: foolish sophists, fascist-socialists, and pelf sucking pond scum, and their associated sycophants and lickspittles dripping in the lucre they have looted from their victims - the hard working peoples of America and the world and their progeny.
Some are just too stupid to know they are destroying the economy and robbing the people, some know what they are doing, and see it as the road to power and wealth.
The rest of us are all victims. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Of course, the government could "do something" to make things better:
Since, the Obama Plan is doomed to fail ...
What the government SHOULD do:
1) Go back on a 100% gold standard, immediately.
2) Abolish all taxes on income and property at all levels of government.
3) Institute a 10% national sales tax to be shared by all levels of government: Federal, State and Local. Make 10% the maximum allowed under the Constitution.
4) Prohibit deficit spending and prohibit all borrowing by government at all levels: Federal, State and Local.
5) Bring US troops home from around the world and shrink the military.
6) End all subsidies for business.
7) End all subsidies for transportation and energy use.
8.) Abolish social security, with apologies, for everyone under age 55.
9) Raise the retirement age to 72 for those between 55 and 64.
10) Use government assets to fund S.S. payments to those who are currently collecting. Privatize the fund. Then end Government payments into the fund.
11) Set a pay cap for government employees at the median level for full time workers in the US.
12) Set the same cap for members of Congress and the President and all their staff members.
13) Slash retirement benefits for Congress and former Presidents and other public officials.
14) Abolish all victimless crime laws and pardon those previously convicted.
15) Require that all spending and tax legislation get a 2/3 majority to pass Congress. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Of course, the government could "do something" to make things better:
Since, the Obama Plan is doomed to fail ...
What the government SHOULD do:
1) Go back on a 100% gold standard, immediately.
2) Abolish all taxes on income and property at all levels of government.
3) Institute a 10% national sales tax to be shared by all levels of government: Federal, State and Local. Make 10% the maximum allowed under the Constitution.
4) Prohibit deficit spending and prohibit all borrowing by government at all levels: Federal, State and Local.
5) Bring US troops home from around the world and shrink the military.
6) End all subsidies for business.
7) End all subsidies for transportation and energy use.
8.) Abolish social security, with apologies, for everyone under age 55.
9) Raise the retirement age to 72 for those between 55 and 64.
10) Use government assets to fund S.S. payments to those who are currently collecting. Privatize the fund. Then end Government payments into the fund.
11) Set a pay cap for government employees at the median level for full time workers in the US.
12) Set the same cap for members of Congress and the President and all their staff members.
13) Slash retirement benefits for Congress and former Presidents and other public officials.
14) Abolish all victimless crime laws and pardon those previously convicted.
15) Require that all spending and tax legislation get a 2/3 majority to pass Congress. |
Absolutely moronic plan. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
Of course, the government could "do something" to make things better:
Since, the Obama Plan is doomed to fail ...
What the government SHOULD do:
1) Go back on a 100% gold standard, immediately.
2) Abolish all taxes on income and property at all levels of government.
3) Institute a 10% national sales tax to be shared by all levels of government: Federal, State and Local. Make 10% the maximum allowed under the Constitution.
4) Prohibit deficit spending and prohibit all borrowing by government at all levels: Federal, State and Local.
5) Bring US troops home from around the world and shrink the military.
6) End all subsidies for business.
7) End all subsidies for transportation and energy use.
8.) Abolish social security, with apologies, for everyone under age 55.
9) Raise the retirement age to 72 for those between 55 and 64.
10) Use government assets to fund S.S. payments to those who are currently collecting. Privatize the fund. Then end Government payments into the fund.
11) Set a pay cap for government employees at the median level for full time workers in the US.
12) Set the same cap for members of Congress and the President and all their staff members.
13) Slash retirement benefits for Congress and former Presidents and other public officials.
14) Abolish all victimless crime laws and pardon those previously convicted.
15) Require that all spending and tax legislation get a 2/3 majority to pass Congress. |
Absolutely moronic plan. |
If you were to actually poll the world of professional economists and ask them to choose between the free market plan above, based on the principles of sound economics and liberty and the fascist-socialist Ponzi plan of fools and the system we now have, you would get a 2/3 majority for my free market plan.
Don't ask them which would pass the boneheaded Congress, ask them which they could choose if passage were guaranteed. You would get more than 2/3 of professional econmists supporting the free market plan and the end of socialism.
We are nearing the tipping point. We can choose the path toward liberty and the free market or we can return to a kind of high tech dark ages. |
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Bucheonguy
Joined: 23 Oct 2008 Location: Bucheon
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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the stimulus package is just throwing gas on the fire. I can't possibly work. All it's doing is delaying depression effects long enough for the bankers and super elite to get their cash out.
The solution is go out and round up all the bankers and politicians who screwed us over and robbed us, and who are continueing to rob us, and hang them up in the village square. Globally this has to happen. Everything else will be futile. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
Of course, the government could "do something" to make things better:
Since, the Obama Plan is doomed to fail ...
What the government SHOULD do:
1) Go back on a 100% gold standard, immediately.
2) Abolish all taxes on income and property at all levels of government.
3) Institute a 10% national sales tax to be shared by all levels of government: Federal, State and Local. Make 10% the maximum allowed under the Constitution.
4) Prohibit deficit spending and prohibit all borrowing by government at all levels: Federal, State and Local.
5) Bring US troops home from around the world and shrink the military.
6) End all subsidies for business.
7) End all subsidies for transportation and energy use.
8.) Abolish social security, with apologies, for everyone under age 55.
9) Raise the retirement age to 72 for those between 55 and 64.
10) Use government assets to fund S.S. payments to those who are currently collecting. Privatize the fund. Then end Government payments into the fund.
11) Set a pay cap for government employees at the median level for full time workers in the US.
12) Set the same cap for members of Congress and the President and all their staff members.
13) Slash retirement benefits for Congress and former Presidents and other public officials.
14) Abolish all victimless crime laws and pardon those previously convicted.
15) Require that all spending and tax legislation get a 2/3 majority to pass Congress. |
Absolutely moronic plan. |
If you were to actually poll the world of professional economists and ask them to choose between the free market plan above, based on the principles of sound economics and liberty and the fascist-socialist Ponzi plan of fools and the system we now have, you would get a 2/3 majority for my free market plan.
Don't ask them which would pass the boneheaded Congress, ask them which they could choose if passage were guaranteed. You would get more than 2/3 of professional econmists supporting the free market plan and the end of socialism.
We are nearing the tipping point. We can choose the path toward liberty and the free market or we can return to a kind of high tech dark ages. |
This is very similar to a list I saw recently, I think on Mankiw's blog, though I could be wrong. The only thing I would add which something like 75% of economists agreed with was a negative income tax. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Here is Mankiw's blog quote. Quite interesting reading. I wish the administration of the worlds economy was based on sound economic principles and not political grandstanding.
| Quote: |
News Flash: Economists Agree
The recent debate over the stimulus bill has lead some observers to think that economists are hopelessly divided on issues of public policy. That is true regarding business cycle theory and, specifically, the virtues or defects of Keynesian economics. But it is not true more broadly.
My favorite textbook covers business cycle theory toward the end of the book (the last four chapters) precisely because that theory is controversial. I believe it is better to introduce students to economics with topics about which there is more of a professional consensus. In chapter two of the book, I include a table of propositions to which most economists subscribe, based on various polls of the profession. Here is the list, together with the percentage of economists who agree:
1. A ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available. (93%)
2. Tariffs and import quotas usually reduce general economic welfare. (93%)
3. Flexible and floating exchange rates offer an effective international monetary arrangement. (90%)
4. Fiscal policy (e.g., tax cut and/or government expenditure increase) has a significant stimulative impact on a less than fully employed economy. (90%)
5. The United States should not restrict employers from outsourcing work to foreign countries. (90%)
6. The United States should eliminate agricultural subsidies. (85%)
7. Local and state governments should eliminate subsidies to professional sports franchises. (85%)
8. If the federal budget is to be balanced, it should be done over the business cycle rather than yearly. (85%)
9. The gap between Social Security funds and expenditures will become unsustainably large within the next fifty years if current policies remain unchanged. (85%)
10. Cash payments increase the welfare of recipients to a greater degree than do transfers-in-kind of equal cash value. (84%)
11. A large federal budget deficit has an adverse effect on the economy. (83%)
12. A minimum wage increases unemployment among young and unskilled workers. (79%)
13. The government should restructure the welfare system along the lines of a �negative income tax.� (79%)
14. Effluent taxes and marketable pollution permits represent a better approach to pollution control than imposition of pollution ceilings. (78%)
If we could get the American public to endorse all these propositions, I am sure their leaders would quickly follow, and public policy would be much improved. That is why economics education is so important.
Note that the proposition about fiscal policy (#4) does not distinguish between taxes and spending as the best tool for purposes of macro stabilization. Maybe that question should be added in a future poll. I doubt, however, that the answer would make it onto this list of widely agreed upon propositions.
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/
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