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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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gyopoboy
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:39 pm Post subject: Japanese Occupation of Korea... |
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not long ago, a few people here were talking about the Japanese Occupation of Korea in a very blase manner.... even going so far as to say that it could be seen as a beneficial period to Korean Society due modernisation and industrialisation...
umm.. yeh...
that's the very imperialistic way of thinking that decided committing the following acts would be greatfully beneficial to the Korean people (and to the Chinese)....
http://www.euflag.com/japan1.html
jack...asses |
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ohahakehte
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The State of Denial
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese Occupation of Korea... |
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| gyopoboy wrote: |
not long ago, a few people here were talking about the Japanese Occupation of Korea in a very blase manner.... even going so far as to say that it could be seen as a beneficial period to Korean Society due modernisation and industrialisation...
umm.. yeh...
that's the very imperialistic way of thinking that decided committing the following acts would be greatfully beneficial to the Korean people (and to the Chinese)....
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i pointed that out a while ago in the thread and was basically ridiculed as being naive. evidently theres a lot of people in the world today who still believe that "advanced civilizations" are doing "savages" a favour by destroying their societies so as to save them. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:22 am Post subject: |
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EUFlag? I saw that guy posting info on his site on a Korean bulletin board a few weeks back, what a coincidence. I took exception to this part that he wrote:
"Koreans, like many other Asian peoples, are descendants of Mongolian Tungus stock. They differ from the neighboring Japanese and Chinese, however, in that Koreans are a homogeneous ethnic group with their own language, culture, and customs."
because Japan is pretty much homogenous and the part about their own language and culture was just...silly. He wrote back and explained to me why he thought the way he did, but that he agreed that China and Japan do have their own customs(!).
He does seem biased though; I wouldn't trust his objectivity. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Japanese Occupation of Korea... |
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| gyopoboy wrote: |
not long ago, a few people here were talking about the Japanese Occupation of Korea in a very blase manner.... even going so far as to say that it could be seen as a beneficial period to Korean Society due modernisation and industrialisation...
umm.. yeh...
that's the very imperialistic way of thinking that decided committing the following acts would be greatfully beneficial to the Korean people (and to the Chinese)....
http://www.euflag.com/japan1.html
jack...asses |
So you post up a link to some pictures that don't have any corroboration as to what the context was, and that completely negates the positive impacts Japan had on the country?
Here, an example.
At first, you think "hey! they're killing an innocent prisoner of war! He's a bad man!"
Reality: The guy about to be shot snuck into the apartment of an off-duty military officer and murdered him and his family while they slept.
While you're posting up pics of accused crimes, why not also post of pics of what the Korean government was also doing to their own people? Maybe how people were tortured for daring to read, how others starved as government troops seized their crops, and maybe still you can pics of how the Korean people embraced the Japanese because the Korean government completely failed them and persecuted them.
Then you finish up by insulting us because we don't immediately follow your unresearched, one-dimentional statement of how the world was in your misguided view. |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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.....
Last edited by little mixed girl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hank Scorpio
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| little mixed girl wrote: |
learn from the past so you don't repeat the mistakes, but seriously b*tching about 35 yrs of occupation, compared to countries like india or vietnam sounds blah. |
I know Indians (the Native American type) that complain less about the incredible, pretty much unprecedented shafting they've received from Anglos than the cult of victimization that Koreans harbor against the Japanese.
If anyone's got a beef with another nation it should be Israel towards Germany, but you don't hear too many Jews blaming present day Germany for the sins of their fathers.
If you put things into historical perspective Korea is pretty far down on the victim scale, and they need to get over this badly. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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The pictures are horrifying and show what happens when nations lose their humanity. As an American I have seen horrific pictures of what happened to the Indians in my own country. We learned well from our forefathers ...the brits...
Nobody has clean hands in this world. As the ebb and flow of power proceeds....atrocities are commited....left and right....it is reprehensible! But to single out Japan as the worst ...hardly....Americans, Brits, Spanish....have a pretty good claim to infamy also. The Christians had a pretty good run also once they became the majority....The Chinese had a quick run during the boxer rebellion too. Pretty nasty business all around.
The pictures on the link pages are barbaric and a good deal of them are taken from the massacre in Nanking. I have a copy of the book (Rape of Nanking) and many of the pictures were taken from that archive. (THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THEM IN ANY WAY) but many of the victims were Chinese not Korean.
I have read a couple of books about the comfort women...written by Koreans...the saddest part was how they were tricked in to it...and even more sad was the fact that a good number were tricked not only by the Japanese but their own countrymen looking to make some money.
I recently saw a movie (korean) about the massacre of the Catholic priests and their believers.....again...disgusting and reprehensible.
The sins of atrocity and cruelty in the past 150 years seem more horrible because of the technology available. There were no cameras in the time of Christ and shortly there after when Christians were set upon by lions and crucified upside down and left to die.
There were no cameras to record the atrocities of the inquistion that make the Japanese look like rank amateurs. The "Christians" certainly had their day didn't they...there is as much blood on their hands as the Romans.
So lets not point too many fingers and puff ourselves up with self-righteousness.....most of our ancestors have bloody skeletons rattling about in the closet.......The sad part is we never seem to learn do we?
Jade |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to get into that Korea/Japan thing again, but on another issue...
Hank Scorpio wrote:
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| If anyone's got a beef with another nation it should be Israel towards Germany, but you don't hear too many Jews blaming present day Germany for the sins of their fathers. |
The fact that Germany has bent over backwards (as they should) to apologize and make reparations is a major part of that, whereas in the East...
...and in this case I'm not even going to include Korea.
The residents of China, captured Allied bomber crews and captured Allied ground troops should suffice without making it a Korea/Japan thing. Or have Allied vets forgiven Japan for all that? If so, then never mind. |
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tokki
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| tokki wrote: |
| I would like Gord to give us the proper context for the following. Im sure all the pics, in their proper context will show how innocent the Japanese were. |
So who were they? Why were they executed? Were they Korean, Chinese, or perhaps they may have even been Japanese. Plus while we're showing pictures of dead people, why not show some pictures of dead Japanese citizens from the bombings in Japan aimed at civilians done by Korean insurgents?
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| The Japanese were so good. How can anyone mistalke their love for chopping off heads and displaying them for theor own amusement as evil? |
You've begun to manufacture facts again. Even the text under the pictures claim the displaying of the chopped off heads was to serve as a warning. Your claims of they were displaying them for their own amusement is unsupported and directly contested by the every evidence you say supports your statement.
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| Gord, save the Japanese honor! Give us the proper context for those 10 photos. Show us how the people deserved to get beheaded by those wannabe samurais. |
Perhaps they were criminals. Perhaps they were part of a group that lead to bombings of innocent civilians in Japan. Perhaps they were Chinese soldiers that said they were surrendering, but then tried to fight their way out. Perhaps they were Japanese soldiers who refused to fight and were executed. There are eleventy bazillion "it could be" options.
As was demonstrated last time this came up (and this time too, as we can see in the prior sentences of yours) much of what you said was true was false, so I would politely ask that you back up everything you wish to say this time around to documented links please.
I already posted one picture that most everyone thought was an example of murdering a P.O.W. in cold blood, but instead it was executing a murderer who was caught. A picture is only a picture, not a story. |
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The Japanese were so good. How can anyone mistalke their love for chopping off heads and displaying them for theor own amusement as evil? Gord, save the Japanese honor! Give us the proper context for those 10 photos. Show us how the people deserved to get beheaded by those wannabe samurais. |
Much as I hate it......Gord has a point. First of all I don't see anywhere where in his post where G. defended the actions...only that they were pictures...and not the whole story.
Shall I post some pictures from the wild wild west...or nazi holocaust..or perhaps some descriptions from the infatida or inquistion.......Do you think the atrocities are any less horrible? Are they any less relevant? All I am saying is that ALL countries have had their hands in the bloodshed of either indigenous populations or those they felt were inferior to them. The Japanese just continued in a sick long tradition of mankind. Sad but true.
Ever seen pictures of the killing fields in Cambodia? You think the Japanese have a corner on the market for cruelty....? Don't be so naive.
jade |
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tokki
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Gordo couldnt do it. Just a bunch of "could bes" from him.
I know Gordo, it was all done for show. To serve as an example. Im sure that the huge grins on Japanese faces dont mean anything about how much they enjoyed their jobs. Oh yes, I know. They could have been criminals. I suppose that all those opposed to the Japanese INVASION and OCCUPATION were criminals. "Dont like our occupation? Well then give us your head". To be fair, looking at it through the indoctrinated eye of the Japanese soldier, anyone not Japanese was a criminal who was occupying Japanese land. The Emperor owned all of Asia anf those dirty Koreans and Chinese were illegally squatting on what is rightfully the Emperor's. But thats OK, the Japanese built many nice buildings here so its all fine.
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| Your claims of they were displaying them for their own amusement is unsupported |
Its supported by the grins on Japanese faces Gordo.
Many perhapses there Gordo. I will also play that game.
Pehaps if the Japanese werent such blood thirsty imperialists bent on rulling every neighbouring nation..perhaps if they didnt invade China and Korea and didnt slaughter hundreds of thousands of people..perhaps then Gordo we wouldnt be having this conversation.
It seems fitting that Japan and Hitler were allies. Very fitting, as both are some of the most criminal nations on earth.
Jade:
No, Japan doesnt have the monopoly on this kind of stuff. They do however have a bloody history of agression in the name of their imperialism. They have put many people to the sword in the name of their evil Emperors. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| tokki wrote: |
| Gordo couldnt do it. Just a bunch of "could bes" from him. |
Because I don't know what happened. Neither do you. The difference is that you are claiming your theories are fact and I'm saying my theories are theories.
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| I know Gordo, it was all done for show. To serve as an example. Im sure that the huge grins on Japanese faces dont mean anything about how much they enjoyed their jobs. Oh yes, I know. They could have been criminals. |
I fail to see the value in using sarcasm to insult me in a serious debate. Unless you have supporting evidence as to the context of the picture, we simply don't know what is going on. Thus a picture is just a picture like the example I used of the killed Vietamese where most people thinking the picture shows the execution of a POW but in reality it the execution of a guy who murdered an entire family in their sleep.
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| ... the Japanese INVASION and OCCUPATION... |
Technically, it was a colonization and liberation.
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| ...were criminals. "Dont like our occupation? Well then give us your head". To be fair, looking at it through the indoctrinated eye of the Japanese soldier, anyone not Japanese was a criminal who was occupying Japanese land. The Emperor owned all of Asia anf those dirty Koreans and Chinese were illegally squatting on what is rightfully the Emperor's. But thats OK, the Japanese built many nice buildings here so its all fine. |
You appear to be suggesting that the Japanese showed up and then proceeded to murder everyone they saw, which is simply untrue. Japan showed up in Korea to offset the risk that was from Russia taking over the show and using it as a launching pad for invading Japan, and that by developing Korea after Korea become a colony only made things better for both Korea and Japan.
Some deaths did occur, but that was mostly from the few who chose to fight, and they were very small in number compared to the people who welcomed the Japanese as was discussed and evidenced in the last thead. Using sarcasm as your sole method of supporting your position is not the wisest method after facts have clearly demonstrated support for a contrasting position.
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Its supported by the grins on Japanese faces Gordo.
Many perhapses there Gordo. I will also play that game. |
The smiles mean nothing with regards to what happened. For all you know, they were criminals who ambushed his buddies and now the guy is happy to have revenge.
My "game" is to state facts, not "my opinion is supported by making things up and claiming they are fact." You have a picture of a guy smiling around dead bodies. That's all that we know, and everything else beyond that are theories.
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Pehaps if the Japanese werent such blood thirsty imperialists bent on rulling every neighbouring nation..perhaps if they didnt invade China and Korea and didnt slaughter hundreds of thousands of people..perhaps then Gordo we wouldnt be having this conversation.
It seems fitting that Japan and Hitler were allies. Very fitting, as both are some of the most criminal nations on earth. |
Why are you injecting insults and insults disguised as theories into a serious discussion? |
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tokki
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:36 am Post subject: |
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http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB8.1.GIF
POWs: 539 000
Forced Labourers: 1, 010, 000
Attrocities: 3, 608, 000
Bombing, CB warfare: 558 000
Democidal Famine: 250 000
Total: 5, 964, 000
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| The most notorious case of indifference to the health and welfare of prisoners and forced laborers was the building of the Burma-Thailand railroad in 1942 to 1943. 30,000 to 100,000 died, probably 60,000 |
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5,400,000 Koreans were conscripted for labor beginning in 1939.the forced labor toll for Korea comes to 270,000 to 810,000 dead in seven years.
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| Japan conscripted over a 1,000,000 forced laborers from Manchuria |
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| a probably conservative range of 100,000 to 200,000 Manchurian dead over seven years |
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The jist of it all is this:
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| the overall Japanese democide in World War II can now be estimated (lines 381-384), and Japanese democide in China included (line 386). This gives a total democide of 3,056,000 to 10,595,000 with a likely mid-total of 5,964,000 people killed. |
Oh those brave and enlightened samurai-poets warriors carrying liberation to the dark lands of Korea, China, Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore, Guam, Saipan.... How these people should fall to their knees and thank the Japanese for their heroism and liberation. |
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