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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Say "bigot" one more time crossmr. Maybe it'll stick. |
I've still got a lot of catching up to do before I catch crusher on how many times he's repeated kimberly or sparkling. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
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| After all, in the natives vernacular, you aren't an American or Australian or South African, you're a foreigner |
And in america they're all chinese.
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Maybe in some backwater hick towns where people have been marrying their cousins for generations, but in America in general? Are you kidding? This really show that in your astounding ignorance you have nothing to offer in this debate except a lot of empty noise. |
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Billos
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Gollywog wrote: |
It is sad but predictable that someone on this board would defend racism in Korea by accusing Americans or other foreigners of being even greater racists. This has been the standard line in virtually every thread on the subject. Isn't it a bit out of date?
Sure, there are still racists in the U.S., and elsewhere. The difference is that when someone in the media engages in anything that even might be interpreted as racist, there are plenty of good Americans of every race who condemn it publicly.
One example was the recent political cartoon in the New York Daily News that has been roundly condemned within the U.S., and around the world:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1305559629
The only thing funny about the cartoon is how anyone could be so idiotic as to publish something like this. Oh, wait. The Daily News is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a native of Australia. (Not that I'm saying Australians are racists.)
Where has been the condemnation by Koreans of the anti-semitic cosmetic commercials, as well as the libeling and stereotyping of foreigners? Here it appears to be good business and viewed as a good way to get votes by some politicians.
If Koreans were portrayed in the American media the way Americans are portrayed in the Korean media, you can bet there would be plenty of outraged Koreans -- and Americans.
On the other hand, we should also be outraged by stereotyping of Koreans by foreigners in Korea. Every one of us teaching in Korea knows Koreans who are not anti-foreigner bigots. We have all experienced kindness and hospitality from many Koreans. |
I find it funny that someone talking about rascism is called Gollywog.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollywog#Golliwog_as_racist_insult |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| After all, in the natives vernacular, you aren't an American or Australian or South African, you're a foreigner |
And in america they're all chinese.
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Maybe in some backwater hick towns where people have been marrying their cousins for generations, but in America in general? Are you kidding? This really show that in your astounding ignorance you have nothing to offer in this debate except a lot of empty noise. |
The chinese population is usually higher than most other asian populations in any given city. Chances are the asians they see on the street are chinese so most people would assume that. Most of the non-chinese friends I have can't count the amount of times they've been asked where in China they're from or simply "Are you from china?"
Its not a terrible question, nor a racist one. Even people from those areas can have a tough time telling some of them apart, so they're really just playing the odds but just on sight I might have a hard time telling a Canadian from an American from an Australian from a Brit unless they were sporting a military uniform/a flag.
So the fact that koreans simply refer to foreigners as foreigners isn't a big deal. We call them immigrants in the west or some other all encompassing accurate term.
The common trend here is if you're going to accuse someone of being racist, make sure you do it too so you can really take that moral high ground. |
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Gollywog
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Debussy's brain
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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It turns out Rupert Murdoch has condemned that controversial cartoon, as did many NY Daily News staffers. So who approved it?
One expert said it was the paper's exec editor, Col Allen, who just happens to be an Australian. He speculates he may be retiring to Australia before long:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#29290136
So, Murdoch is off the hook. But not everything in the American media is the result of Americans and American values. (I do not wish to imply that all or most Australians are racists.)
And many of the great inventions and innovations in America have been the work of immigrants. America is not a homogeneous society. But it is totally wrong for foreigners to claim that America tolerates racism.
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In America, the only use of the term "gollywog" or "golliwog" that I have ever heard has to do with a famous piece of music by Claude Debussy, part of his suite, "Children's Corner." The style was influenced by American ragtime and the cakewalk, popular at the time.
Golliwog's Cakewalk:
http://homepage.mac.com/stevepur/music/debussy_piano/golliwog.html
Is no one else here a lover of music who recognizes this reference? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
"Comparatively speaking" is pretty irrelevant in a global marketplace. Either you have a tolerant open society, or you don't. And foreign investment, movement of capital, accumulation of cultural capital/soft power, etc, will come from that, or they won't.
Korea is a generation ahead of China, yet still lags behind in per capita foreign investment. Why is that? Just because of its location on the "arbitrary re-creation of Western social and economic development" timeline? Or maybe something more ingrained, and dare I say, cultural?
China is hardly a tolerant open society...check their per capita foreign investment lately? If you are suggesting that Korea's foreign investment has suffered because it's not a "tolerant open society" then China's should be even worse. Only it's not. The foreign investment has much to do with the restrictive labor laws in Korea and just as much to do with the laxer ones in China.
No kudos for "it's pretty progressive, relative to an analogous point in Western social history". History waits for no country, no matter how insular it tries to be. |
China's doing pretty well. |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| its also used instead of pollywog for a small tadpole in parts of the US. |
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Pojogae
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Gollywog wrote: |
In America, the only use of the term "gollywog" or "golliwog" that I have ever heard has to do with a famous piece of music by Claude Debussy, part of his suite, "Children's Corner."
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Mr Gollywog, do you really expect anyone to believe this? |
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sportsguy35
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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CoH, I am in no way defending this tv show. I don't know why it was construed that way. The only thing I am pointing out is that this show was on at a very late hour and it not something to sum the "society" up by. Foreigners are by and large new to Korea over the last 30 years. Korea has already changed a lot since 2002 when I arrived and it is making big changes.
I really don't want to keep arguing with you on every thread. Allz I am saying is that look at the time this was played. If it was on MBC at 8 pm, that would be another story. Most Koreans have probably never even heard of this show. |
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crosbystillsstash
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Scotticus"]
| sportsguy35 wrote: |
We know, for a fact, that Koreans LOVE to protest. The fact that something like this doesn't even register a blip on the rader compared to, say, stupid-ass rumors about cow meat snuffing out your life while you sleep, is more telling than any counter-argument you can think up. |
This is so true! |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Say "bigot" one more time crossmr. Maybe it'll stick. |
I've still got a lot of catching up to do before I catch crusher on how many times he's repeated kimberly or sparkling. |
You seem to have quite the chip on your shoulder, Kimberly. Try being less reactive and more inner directed; it will not only make you a better teacher, but a better person.
You are welcome. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| crusher_of_heads wrote: |
You seem to have quite the chip on your shoulder, Kimberly. Try being less reactive and more inner directed; it will not only make you a better teacher, but a better person.
You are welcome. |
Nope just calling out a pathetic bigot. You're a worse piece of racist trash than the people you think you're targeting, but whatever helps you sleep at night champ. |
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sarbonn
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| crusher_of_heads wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Say "bigot" one more time crossmr. Maybe it'll stick. |
I've still got a lot of catching up to do before I catch crusher on how many times he's repeated kimberly or sparkling. |
You seem to have quite the chip on your shoulder, Kimberly. Try being less reactive and more inner directed; it will not only make you a better teacher, but a better person.
You are welcome. |
It is kind of overkill with the amount you're using the word. I thought it was kind of interesting the first time I heard it, even though I really didn't know what it meant until I heard someone explain it. Fewer times used a day would actually serve the purpose of making it become a habit. Overkill and people will think it's stupid and stop using it and think anyone who does use it is foolish and some kind of bandwagon jumper, even if it's the guy who created it.
As for the subject itself, there are a lot of really stupid premises for television shows, even in the United States. Television can often be the lowest denominator in a society, and it tends to appeal to the prurient interests. That a television show is doing exactly that and using stereotypes as part of its programming doesn't really surprise me. I don't really feel a need to condemn Korean society because a popular show on television does something stupid and for the sake of ratings. Is it wrong? Yeah, of course it is. But that's what television tends to be most of the time.
That people are talking about it is a sign of good things. If people just ignored it, well, that gives them the incentive to just keep saying the same thing. How come people don't write the television station asking them to be a little more forthcoming with better representation of the minority population here? I really doubt a lot of people are doing so, and instead are complaining about it here, waiting for it to happen again, and then complaining about it again. Sure, maybe a letter to the station won't make a difference, but it did make a huge difference back in the states over a period of continuous letter writing over years by large groups of people. Things like this rarely change overnight, but they can change. But they won't change if people don't do anything to try to make them change.
And no, I'm not an apologist for Korea. There are enough screwed up things here that I could go on for days, but not everything needs to be an issue here, and I don't need to create negative monikers of the population to show my disdain for practices I find to be repulsive. Insulting the population rarely has much of a positive impact on changing the minds of the said population but reinforces their stereotypes in the first place. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:00 am Post subject: |
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A Korean TV show uses a character that is a foreign teacher as a rapist in a story and some of you DEFEND this as a "good thing." 
Netizens, you are wrong and you should realize that this racism against foreigners. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
A Korean TV show uses a character that is a foreign teacher as a rapist in a story and some of you DEFEND this as a "good thing."
Netizens, you are wrong and you should realize that this racism against foreigners. |
It seems as though Koreans are more interested in solidifying their stereotypes no matter how incorrect than admit they've made an error. Korea Sparkling!
Koreans seem to have an irrational fear of foreigners, which is also portrayed in media and other aspects of life in Korea. Garbage such as this TV program only embarrasses Korea in front of the world but Koreans don't seem to mind looking foolish to the rest of the world. |
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