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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| And the rhetorical response of conservatives to the stimulus plan � which will, it�s worth bearing in mind, cost substantially less than either the Bush administration�s $2 trillion in tax cuts or the $1 trillion and counting spent in Iraq � has bordered on the deranged. |
There are more than two camps. There are people who opposed both. And they are right on both camps.
In Canada, the Cons are now proposing budget deficits until 2016. Shall this just go unopposed because they expand the war in Afghanistan?
Krugman is a hack. Sorry to say, but it is true. I've had to remove Salon.com, Mother Jones and Slate from my google reader because they've become parrots of Krugman's blog posts. He isn't a god. He is a hack. Gary Becker also won the Nobel in economics, and he opposes this crap. Why is Krugman a god?
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| It�s �destroying my daughters� future. It is like sitting there watching my house ransacked by a gang of thugs,� said Arnold Kling of the Cato Institute. |
Cato, and Kling, opposed all the Bush nonsense.
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| The plan sketched out by Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, wasn�t bad, exactly. |
No. It was universally heckled as horrible. Not merely 'bad'. And it isn't a cover for nationalization, as Krugman has been claiming on his blog.
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| Officially, the administration insists that the plan is adequate to the economy�s need. But few economists agree. |
Which is true. "Economists", or those worth listening to (not connected to a political party or bank) think it is ass. They think the whole idea of a massive stimulus is bad.
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| So far the Obama administration�s response to the economic crisis is all too reminiscent of Japan in the 1990s... |
He should have stopped there. This is exactly right. Krugman's moan about Japan is that they didn't spend enough. Good god. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Peter Schiff: February 5, 2009:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEnUifqDk6U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcyrAfaWYvc
This is one of the people who predicted this entire crisis. He says the Obama plan will make it much worse.
And, so it will.
This depression was not caused by the banks. The banks are victims along with the rest of us. We do not need more financial regulation. We need sound money: a gold standard or free market money. We need to abolish all taxes on income and property. Fund the whole govt, all levels and all branches combined, on a 10 % sales tax. Abolish entitlements. Deregulate work. Abolish licensing laws for employment. Free the labor market. Deregulate business completely. Denationalize transportation and energy. End subsidies.
This Depression was caused by Ponzi economics. It's a total failure of the keynesian and socialist models - already proven in theory and in the real world not to work.
The answer is Liberty. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Schiff said something that raised my eyebrows, which was that excessive regulation got the US into this mess and that the free market should be left alone to do its thing (paraphrasing).
Even if you disagree with the wisdom of the stimulus package, wasn't a lack of regulation what overturned the applecart (or at least sped up the fall)? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Schiff is right.
The government and the federal reserve caused this crisis, 100%.
We have all predicted this crisis for years: what would happen, how and why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOCnVaZsMvw&feature=related
Check the dates of these predictions.
The Ponzi economists have failed. The government is full of fools and liars. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Dow Jones Industrial Average(DJI: ^DJI)
Index Value: 7,465.95
Trade Time: Feb 19
Change: 89.68 (1.19%)
Prev Close: 7,555.63
Open: 7,555.23
Day's Range: 7,447.55 - 7,614.97
52wk Range:
Yesterday's market.
Since Obama's Ponzi economic plan has been sure to go into effect, the market is down 1000 points or so, due to the expected failure.
The Ponzi economics of Obama's gang of fools has already failed. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: |
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[quote="asylum seeker"]
| mises wrote: |
Obama... He's not on the right track with the economy.
From Naked Capitalism:
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Dear God, let's just kiss the US economy goodbye. It may take a few years before the loyalists and permabulls throw in the towel, but the handwriting is on the wall.
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If this is true then it's pretty disappointing. I had really hoped that Obama might try to stand up to the self-serving banking/financial industry more than the Bush administration did. |
So you actually thought there'd be a significant difference? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aLBIlwoPfksk&refer=home
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Feb. 20 (Bloomberg) -- China�s economy, depending on your bias, will surpass the U.S. by 2020, 2030, 2050 -- or never. Yet China�s economy might already be bigger than the U.S.�s.
The point isn�t to fish for hate mail, but to demonstrate how disorienting the world has become. Remember how two years ago most people said the subprime crisis was containable, Asia was immune to global turmoil, and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. alumni could do no wrong? Well, think again.
My Jan. 21 column headlined: �A $17 Trillion Alliance Can Save World Economies.� Critics had much to say about my argument that the U.S. and China must drop the nationalism and cooperate. They had even more to say about figures.
Many took exception to my claim that the U.S. economy is worth $14 trillion and China�s $3.3 trillion. Most argued the U.S. figure -- from the World Bank -- was overstated. Others wondered if the Chinese figure was too high. Some argued it was too low.
All this makes you consider our goalposts. The methods used to calculate gross domestic product may not be valid as the global economy swoons.
Take China. At its most basic level, GDP is the total market value of final goods and services a nation produces in a given year. Andy Xie, a Shanghai-based independent economist, puts China�s GDP at $4.1 trillion to $4.3 trillion. Xie isn�t alone. Some put the figure at $4.4 trillion.
Gaining on Japan
Xie�s calculations are as follows. China�s exports were about $1.4 trillion last year, while total labor income was about $2.4 trillion, capital income was about $550 billion and government income was about $600 billion. Then he subtracts about $800 billion to account for the depreciation of roads, properties and other facilities.
If correct, China has just about caught up with Japan, the second-biggest economy.
Or is China really a shell of its claimed size? You have to wonder about a place that every couple of years finds an economy the size of Austria it wasn�t aware of, as it did in late 2005. In January, China suddenly said its economy overtook Germany�s to become the third-largest in 2007.
Who knows, next year statisticians may say China has surpassed the U.S. China�s data are about as accurate as tossing a dart at a chart on the wall.
Scale Issues
The point isn�t to insult Chinese officials. China�s is a structurally imbalanced economy distorted by top-down policies and considerable �gray activities� that are hard to measure. There also are daunting scale issues.
Think about it. With modest resources, Chinese officials sitting in a room need to condense and capture the activities of more than 1.3 billion people at many levels of poverty and prosperity over 365 days. Then, they are expected to come up with a single figure that news agencies can headline and traders can react to.
�It�s always going to be Sisyphus-ian,� says Stephen Green, a Shanghai-based economist at Standard Chartered Plc, referring to a king in Greek mythology condemned to roll a boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll down again.
Not surprisingly, many readers doubt the brawn of China�s economy. The skepticism is over how any country can announce such huge revisions and be believed. Some also point to a lack of transparency (not that the U.S. has much these days) and the quality of Chinese goods.
U.S. Mirage
Looking at the U.S., there is cause to doubt the size of the world�s biggest economy. The reason? Wall Street.
Economies that are highly reliant on financial flows �are less transparent,� says Glenn Maguire, chief Asia economist at Societe Generale SA in Hong Kong. �That means any economy that has depended on financial services for growth. Financial-sector profits were responsible for most of the growth in U.S. profits in this cycle.�
Is the size of the U.S. economy really a mirage based on irresponsible, asset-inflating monetary policy? The financial products that created so much wealth and are now destroying it were built upon existing ones, and so on. U.S. prosperity, one could argue, is predicated on several layers of over-inflated assets and, thus, by extension so is the world economy.
When you have a mispricing of asset values on a national or international scale, it�s hard to know what�s real and what isn�t -- what genuinely is floating around in the financial ether, and what�s not. And when do we stop referring to economies such as the U.S. as �industrialized�? One is hard-pressed to name many products that are actually made in America.
That leaves services, the value of which is devilishly hard to measure. Chinese officials who think they can trade in $682 billion of U.S. government debt for tangible goods that will be loaded onto ships and delivered to Shanghai are dreaming.
So, the size of the U.S. economy could be a figment of statisticians� imagination. So could China�s. It�s no longer clear what to believe. Making sense of the world is getting harder by the day. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Mises,
Your article could be titled:
"Ponzi economics deludes the world."
or
"Federal Reserve fiat money inflation causes malinvestment and misleading prices and statistics."
Meanwhile, the Ponzi economic plan continues to fail:
Dow Jones Industrial Average(DJI: ^DJI)
Index Value: 7,297.73
Trade Time: 12:49pm ET
Change: 168.22 (2.25%)
Prev Close: 7,465.95
Open: 7,461.49
Day's Range: 7,295.98 - 7,461.49
52wk Range: 7,392.27 - 13,191.50
We should make a pool on when the DOW hits 6,000. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Citigroup Inc. C -22.31%
Hartford Financial Servic... HIG -21.60%
Bank of America Corporati... BAC -19.85%
WELLS FARGO CAP VIII GWF -19.49%
Wells Fargo & Company WFC -18.82%
Those are half way through the trading day.
And twenty min later:
Citigroup Inc. C -30.68%
Bank of America Corporati... BAC -28.24%
Hartford Financial Servic... HIG -25.36%
Bank of America Corp. PRF... BAC-L -24.81%
Wells Fargo & Company WFC -23.73%
Last edited by mises on Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: |
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[quote=]One is hard-pressed to name many products that are actually made in America.[/quote]
I can name one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff
Last edited by caniff on Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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