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"The worst is yet to come." US living standards
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RJjr



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are too many rich and middle class deadbeats climbing into the cart to ride with poor people on welfare. There are too few "old school" Americans remaining to continue pulling the cart much longer.

That's why this depression will be so much worse than the one in the 1930s. Americans didn't have this kind of debt back then and there wasn't such a sense of entitlement. These days, a lot of Americans "deserve" everything, especially if it's a million dollar home bought with no money down and McDonald's wages. With lenders being demonized so much these days, a lot of people have changed Flip Wilson's famous line "The devil made me do it," to "The lender made me do it." Everything is always someone else's fault. Personal responsibility doesn't exist anymore. Years ago, McDonald's got sued because a lady spilled coffee on her own crotch. Now, they're getting sued because some people blame McDonald's for making them fat.

I know a couple in their late 30s who were condo-flippers during the real estate boom. They've been having some monumental financial problems and asking everybody around here to lend them money. I don't know who did or didn't (I didn't. Too many people owe me money already.), but I know a lot of people are angry that they've suddenly bought two brand new vehicles and a lot of new clothing and who knows what else. I guess the people who are angry are the ones who loaned them money and will obviously get stiffed when the couple declares bankruptcy. Neutral
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canuckistan
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This recession is proving to be a great lesson in returning to living within one's means.
That's not a bad thing.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuckistan wrote:
That's not a bad thing.


Yeah, you say that now, but Americans aren't so good at self-restraint. Believe me, there is undoubtedly a certain segment of the American population that'll be looking up north and licking its collective chops.

CANADA!!!! LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvufFwdqMzg

(I keed, I keed.....)
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!


A third war could do wonders for the economy--we'd have to reinstitute the draft and that would soak up some of the unemployment. By resurrecting Polk's campaign slogan: 54 40' or Fight! Limbaugh could stir up the Right and we could end 160 years of national humiliation of having Alaska separated from the Lower 48. I can think of several 'teachers' who'd be glad to enlist in a cause like that. Payback time, I think they call it.


Wink
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Crisis may be worse than Depression: Volcker

NEW YORK, Feb 20 (Reuters) - The global economy may be deteriorating even faster than it did during the Great Depression, Paul Volcker, a top adviser to President Barack Obama, said on Friday.

Volcker noted that industrial production around the world was declining even more rapidly than in the United States, which is itself under severe strain.

"I don't remember any time, maybe even in the Great Depression, when things went down quite so fast, quite so uniformly around the world," Volcker told a luncheon of economists and investors at Columbia University.

Given the extent of the damage, financial regulations must be improved and enhanced to prevent future debacles, although policy-makers must be cautious not disrupt things further while the turmoil is ongoing.

Volcker, a former chairman of the Federal Reserve famed for breaking the back of inflation in the early 1980s, mocked the argument that "financial innovation," a code word for risky securities, brought any great benefits to society. For most people, he said, the advent of the ATM machine was more crucial than any asset-backed bond.

"There is little correlation between sophistication of a banking system and productivity growth," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE51J5JM20090220?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And while I wasn't looking:

Quote:
General Motors Corp. shares on Friday tumbled to their lowest level in more than 70 years, pulled down by a drop in the broader markets and continued speculation about the future of the struggling automaker.

GM shares hit a low of $1.52 in early afternoon trading, before rebounding somewhat to close down 23 cents, or 11.5 percent, at $1.77. The low matched a record set on July 26, 1934, according to the Center for Research in Security Prices at the University of Chicago.


From the AP.
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Beej



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!


A third war could do wonders for the economy--we'd have to reinstitute the draft and that would soak up some of the unemployment. By resurrecting Polk's campaign slogan: 54 40' or Fight! Limbaugh could stir up the Right and we could end 160 years of national humiliation of having Alaska separated from the Lower 48. I can think of several 'teachers' who'd be glad to enlist in a cause like that. Payback time, I think they call it.


Wink


Reinstate the draft to invade Canada? Please. Talk about bringing a nuke to a knife fight. My plan to invade Canada would be to just empty out California's prisons at the border and tell those psychopaths to get up there and take whatever you want. This would even save California from going bankrupt. Governor Schwarzeneggar can even be the general, dress up as Terminator, and lead the "troops"
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow.

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE51K0A920090221?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true
Quote:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world financial system has effectively disintegrated, adding that there is yet no prospect of a near-term resolution to the crisis.

Soros said the turbulence is actually more severe than during the Great Depression, comparing the current situation to the demise of the Soviet Union.


He said the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers in September marked a turning point in the functioning of the market system.

"We witnessed the collapse of the financial system," Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. "It was placed on life support, and it's still on life support. There's no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom."

His comments echoed those made earlier at the same conference by Paul Volcker, a former Federal Reserve chairman who is now a top adviser to President Barack Obama.

Volcker said industrial production around the world was declining even more rapidly than in the United States, which is itself under severe strain.

"I don't remember any time, maybe even in the Great Depression, when things went down quite so fast, quite so uniformly around the world," Volcker said.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises,

I've got a bone to pick with you. It's very hard to keep an optimistic attitude when you keep posting stuff like that. Would it be too much to ask for you to consult the Pollyanna Daily Post for at least one positive article a day? Would it?

Sincerely,

Y
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rWY3qGfe6gc/SZ5afvYs7MI/AAAAAAAABtY/mlKvKASUYFk/s1600-h/brusha_brusha_brusha.jpg
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy

Yes, thank you for that. I feel better already.



Here's something from my hero and your nemesis, Paul Krugman that has a glimmer of hope in it:

Who�ll Stop the Pain?

So will our slump go on forever? No. In fact, the seeds of eventual recovery are already being planted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/opinion/20krugman.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

I admit it isn't much but it's something.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll get out of this. It will take a couple years but we'll recover.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But to be negative again... A bad hurricane season, a bad earthquake in California, a terrorist attack, a nuclear accident at a powerplant.. Any of these types of things would really be a nightmare (much more so than usual). We need perfect stability. A good crop, no military crises abroad etc. The system is fragile. A soft wind could blow it over. This goes for the whole OECD and basically everybody else and not just North America.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one that will warm you up on a cold winter day (even if it isn't cold where you are):

It's one month into Barack Obama's presidency and it's already clear that the economic team isn't making the grade. Larry Summers helps craft a stimulus plan that almost no other economist thinks will work -- at least as well as it should. Timothy Geithner announces his bank-rescue plan and the market immediately drops 300 points.

The solution? Appoint Paul Krugman economic czar.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/02/wish_upon_a_czar.html

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who crowned that guy? Is it the Nobel? Gary Becker also has one, and is on a totally different page.

Just cause the guy was great at bashing Bush doesn't mean he has good ideas in his head.
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