Korean Job Discussion Forums

[NAVFC]

Yes, it can.

어 can be aw as in thaw or Uh as in "uh oh!"

take the word 시험 for instance. It isnt shee-hawm

heres a URL with a example:
http://www.lingvozone.com/Korean

"2. Vowels (모음)

ㅏ is similar to "Ah".

ㅑ is similar to "yard".

ㅓ is similar to "cut".

ㅕ is similar to "just" or "Eliot".

ㅗ is similar to "order".

ㅛ is similar to " Yoda".

ㅜ is similar to " Ungaro".

ㅠ is similar to "you".

ㅡ is similar to "good" or "le chatau".

ㅣ is similar to "easy".
ㅐ is similar to "add".

ㅒ is similar to "yam".

ㅔ is similar to " editor".

ㅖ is similar to " yes".

ㅘ is similar to " Wow!" or "what".

ㅙ is similar to "wagon".

ㅚ is similar to "Koeln".

ㅝ is similar to " one".

ㅞ is similar to " weather".

ㅟ is similar to "we" or "Oui!"

"
so yes the UH sound does exist in Korean.

Furthermore I am holding a text book at this moment in my hands, called Elementary Korean, which says the same thing.

[ontheway]

[NAVFC]

No sung equivalent in Korean?

I think former north korean dictator Kim Il Sung would have argued with you about this.

Like I said, multiple sources including numerous text book as well as the URL I posted all explain the
어 as either sounding like aw in thaw or Uh in Uh oh or in one example the U in the word cut. Ive cited references...
and its not just transliteration.

The book elementary Korean comes also with an audio CD of native speakers reading the examples in said book.
the book doesnt teach in romanization it teaches in hangul.
but so far every refrence i have cited in this thread
korean movies, text books, websites agrees.


I never tried to say song and sung sounded the same. Thats the whole point.

Someone replied to this thread saying the pronunciation was Kim Jong Il
and transliterated it as Kim Jaw-ng Il. and thats simply not the case.

Its Kim Jung Il.

Jung as in the same part of ex president Kim Dae Jungs name.

It wasnt Kim Dae Jong.

[ontheway]

Yes. There is absolutely no "sung" equavalent in Korean. Anyone who thinks there is has a hearing deficiency in at least one language.



The Korean government's transliteration system needs to be scrapped.


성 is "song"


song
long
Hong Kong


not "ung"

dung
sung

[ontheway]

Koreans are especially bad at hearing the differences, which is why the transliteration link you posted and the Korean government system are all just wrong.

The people making up these systems can NOT hear the sounds they are transliterating into. They are generally unable to discern differences in Korean itself.

Koreans have no system of phonics for Korean. When they go to school they study syllables. They never learn to make the sounds of their own letters. (They are further handicapped by their reliance on Chinese characters for differentiation of meanings.)

In addition, since English and Korean have completely different sounds, we are generally talking about "areas" of sound, or similar sounds. But, to transliterate the sounds, you first have to be able to differentiate the sounds. Very few Koreans can.


Another example:

Take the "s" sound in English.

Now, think about "ㅅ."


Engish has "s," "sh" and "th" like "think" which Koreans are generally unable to distinguish.

Koreans pronounce:

사 as "sa"

but

신 as "Shin"

Yet, they are generally unaware that they are using two different sounds. They have only studied syllables and not the sounds of the individual letters.

Further, many Koreans pronounce the "ㅅ" sound differently from one speaker to another in ways that an English speaker with normal hearing can readilly detect, but are incomprehensible to a Korean. This has to do with areas or regions of similar sound.

Since Koreans have no "th" or "sh" in normal usage, they can make all kinds of sloppy sounds within the sound region of the "ㅅ" sound and no Korean will notice.

So, for the word "소" one Korean will say "so," another will say "show," another will use a kind of "s-th" sound, and yet another will say "thow," and no Korean will notice that the pronunciations are different. They are all within the normal sound region and they are unable to tell the difference.

This is why Koreans can write "성" as "sung." It's because, other than those few who have been professionally trained by an expert to hear the difference, Koreans are "deaf" to English sound differences that fall within the standard regions of Korean pronunciation. Since Koreans cannot hear the "short u" sound, they generally do not hear the difference between "dong" and "dung" or "song" and "sung."


Koreans are unable to transliterate into English. They litterally cannot hear the sound differences. Their system is not accurate. If you are using it, then you will be unable to hear the differences as well.

[NAVFC]

[Kuros]

'eo' as in Seo-ul.

[bucheon bum]

or 인찬=InchEOn. or 춘천=chunchEOn. Etc etc.

NAVFC, you're talking about a different letter in regards to Kim Dae Jung (vs kim il sung (seong)).

증 vs. 성

[Captain Corea]

[NAVFC]

[ontheway]

NAVFC,

If you think that "John" and "song" have the same sound, then we have located the source of your problem. You have a hearing deficiency.

[nateium]

[NAVFC]

[NAVFC]

[ontheway]

김일성 : The last syllable is "song."

This is absolutely correct.


Today I polled my Korean students:

RE: 김정일

for those at the 2 year in America level: 100% agreed that the 정 sound matches the English sound "Jong" although "Zhong" is better.

for those at the 3 year in America level: 100% agreed that the 정 sound matches the English sound "Jong" although "Zhong" is better.

(I will poll the 4 year in America level tomorrow.)

The Korean syllable 성 is, of course, "song." All of my high level students have verified that long ago.

They also agree that there is no "short u" or "uh" sound like "jung" in Korean. They know that their Korean teachers cannot speak, understand or teach English. They know the transliterations are wrong. They come to me and report on and complain about the bad translations in movies and books in Korea. They complain about how their textbooks in school are wrong in grammar, sentence structure, translation and pronunciation.

And, they know that when they grow up, they will have to fix the dictionaries, books, movies, and official government translations, transliterations and documents that are wrong today. They know they have been cursed by the incompetence of their elders.


Then, I checked with a beginner class. This would be the level of Korean English teachers today, and the translators and employees of the Korean government. Many of them could not yet hear or distinguish the difference between "jong" and "jung."

This is a hearing problem.

In time, the beginners will get it too.