Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Goku]

Now,

What exactly is a loser?

Because I fling around the term as much as the next guy but I can't quite put my finger on what this giant pool of people actually is.

It could be a combination of a number of things from any sorts of different people not resembling each other. Is it a feeling? Is it lack of social awareness or skills? Is it social status?

I think the thing that tips the scales for me when I think someone is a loser has to be their professionalism/ seriousness. And I think it seems to be the common ground that a lot of us seem to use when we refer to the foreigners we see.

I mean, if I met someone who was fully decked out in a suit, lacked all social skills, but was still professional and overobessive with work... I wouldn't call that person a loser.

However, even if I knew someone socially adept, keen, and funny yet dressed like "The only thing missing was the seedy superbowl couch and week-old pizza box" and basically dicked around in school. I would consider him a loser.

I guess it has to do with work ethic for me. That and maybe the way they dess and act.

[bassexpander]

I sure don't now that I'm doing my MA. Most ESL teachers taking the same course from the USA envy my overseas experience.

[Otherside]

Anybody who is in ESL/EFL for more than a year or two, who doesn't enjoy it (or the life it brings) or is in it for the money, or is in it because it is the best they can get is a loser.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[nicam]

I too left a "good" job back home, at an internet company that was run by one of the most notorious Draconian douches in Silicone Valley. It was so boring, and small, and the tactics (like the dangling carrot and fear mongering) were so over the top they were comical.

But, I had it easy, and I was proud to tell people where I worked, and delighted by their reactions. I walked from that job thinking my experience would land me a new and better gig, but then the recession hit, and after 5 months of fruitless job hunting I came here. Does this make me a loser? I really feel like one sometimes, as it only took me a couple of months to realize that my PS job here is beyond futile, and not only am I ridiculed and marginalized, but it's all for a measly $9 and hour given the conversion rate. This causes me to refrain from devoting any intellectual energy to the job, which makes me feel like even more of a loser.

I don't know about designated losers, but I do know that it's the smart kids who pursue degrees in humanities and the arts who seem to have it the worst. The less academically inclined kids join the military and get jobs as executive assts., or cops, or they work for the VA. Or, they blow fat lines of coke and make tons of money selling mortgages or stocks. They buy material things and procreate. They think they are better than depressive academic loser types who are stuck in low paying academic jobs. They are aggro and lack empathy, but they have "good" jobs, and live outside of their heads and in the real world.

I haven't met many "losers" here, but then again, I don't walk around thinking I am better than everyone.

[ESL Milk "Everyday]

Everyone has their own opinion on what a loser is.

For me, losers are people who don't care about finding any meaning in their lives, or don't care about understanding the world they are living in, don't make concessions when they are obviously called for, and are constantly asserting themselves through bullying, name-calling and other forms of intimidation... they also like to capitalize on people who make themselves vulnerable, because they enjoy more than anything having an easy target. These kinds of people never progress, never fully understand people, and always end up bitter and resentful. They also never actually manage to put themselves into perspective.

Being a loser has nothing to do with being in Korea, or your choice of careers... unless I suppose you choose to define yourself through your career choice, but if that's the case, then you're hardly alive, as far as I'm concerned. Having a wife, a family, a good job... it's all meaningless if all that it does is weigh you down, but people fall for it because they want the status. This is not to suggest that this kind of lifestyle is always like this, just that there's no reason to get married and have a family until you meet someone whom you know will be able to help you do it together.

Some people would be attracted to ESL because they have other projects and this job gives them ample time to finish them. While I'd agree that inspiration is somewhat lacking here, I would argue this kind of lifestyle would be ideal for a struggling band, or a novelist, or an artist of any other type or sort... not to mention travel junkies who live to have their minds opened, and are attentive and sober enough to actually benefit spiritually from seeing the world. I have never understood people who say that travel gets boring-- unless I know for a fact their whole goal was to get drunk with other foreigners and, if they're lucky, have sex with one of the locals.

Being a loser has nothing to do with your job, it's your attitude towards life, and how you handle your experiences.

[bogey666]

a loser? am I? (well I suppose others may think so, and of course I am free to think of other interesting monikers that may fit them, or even use the same one.

do I feel like a loser?
HELL NO.

I'm old enough where I have nothing to prove to noone (and frankly I had little to prove to anyone when I was in my twenties too - I never got into the entire keep up with/ impress the Joneses game, etc) .

I've already had a successful mini career where I made more money than most people who might call me such a name. Not enough to retire on, but enough to have bought a nice condo very early on which the mortgage left to paid is less than a third of its value, even at today's deprressed prices. I also started traveling the world and massively so, to the tune of blowing probably around 12-15K USD a year just for travel purposes.

Then I decided why travel for short times only to come back to the US and become miserable (and chubby?) again?

it all depends on the choices one makes, your definitions of what is "loserlike" and not, etc.

Koreans might think I'm a loser for not having gotten married and had children like is expected of every Korean, etc

of course, I look at their worker ant cigarette and soju soaked loser existence and wonder the very same thing about them... eh?


I've seen some people around who had that "loser" look, but I prefer not to make snap judgments on that alone.

actually, during interacting with other GEPIK teachers at orientation, I wouldn't have applied the word "loser" to the overwhelming majority of them at all!

p.s,. btw. are you the guy who a while back posted this big and long RANT about having to leave the US because of all the (Mexican) immigrants and how you felt you couldn't survive speaking just English in your own country, etc et etc?????

or am I confusing you with someone else?

I vehemently disagreed with about 99.9% of that rant, but it was a fascinating one anyways

[Robot_Teacher]

OP is right. I say many express this downtrodden age by how they dress and act. They suck.

Robot says those who still take pride in themselves and their work are not losers even though we may make much less money in this expensive age; the economy, incompetent bureaucracy, and weak volatile currencies are the losers failing us. I agree, some people need to dress better, do personal hygiene, and act like educated professionals. You may think you don't contribute anything back to your home country by teaching in Korea and it's OK to just say and do anything, but what you contribute is the impression you leave on people in other countries through your appearance, actions, attitude, and performance.

Robot and his peers are the most highly educated, capable, and skilled competent professionals in the history of the world. The economy is just not presenting an appropriate level of opportunity for us today. Losers are people who give up and stop trying.

Robot made twice as much money 10 years ago on just a 2 year degree and lived for half the cost of today when companies called on 20 somethings to perform good paying IT work that offered plenty of 3 day weekends and all holidays off which meant a bagful of 4 day weekends to go home on. But Robot is not giving up nor lowering standards until it's game over. Hey, it's not game over, get out of the holey jeans, backwards caps, and for Christs sakes; cover those tattoos and act like you got brains and a good education. You're not an unemployed dope smoking hippy in college anymore.

[Kurtz]

I agree with the above, but I shudder when I see a group of TESOLers in a group, swearing, wearing terrible cheap clothes, having holes and studs in their face, and seeing them look me up and down because I'm wearing expensive clothes, hearing the utter crap spewing from their foul mouths and I don't have to wonder why this field of employment receives little or no credibility from the outside world,

What is a "loser" is quite up to interpretation, but for me there is little doubt, this profession attracts less desirable people than many other professions. It seems to be full of backpacker types looking forward to their mundane holiday in Thailand, like WOW man! you're going to Thailand, that's so original!!!!!

Maybe I'm just old and bitter, but having next to no Western friends here is a a Godsend, as what I've seen and heard, I'd have it no other way.
To the faded t-shirt clad, shitty jean wearing, back to front cap wearing, goatey beard sporting, slack jawed , backpack toting, 23 year olds here, you are a walking and talking disgrace to Western people in general as you're actually real life examples of Western culture to these ignorant and judge mental people, and the next time you jump on Dave's to bitch about exchange rates, just imagine what your current plight would be in your crappy hick hometown.

For the others, enjoy making money doing very little, and remember, you're making 2 or 3 point whatever WON, don't convert to your own currency as you're not living there right now, and hello to those wondering about your next move in this life of which Korea (hopefully) is just another of life's experiences, just don't let too many years slip through.

Lastly, to those who say Korea is full of losers, well, nobody is making you stay here, so go take your superior arse off someplace else where you can feel superior somewhere that's not in Korea.

[Kurtz]

My response was to ESL milk BTW

[shantaram]

[Ukon]

[Zantetsuken]

[GwangjuParents]

[madhusudan]