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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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 Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulMan6 wrote: |
Here we have a list of people making excuses not to go to a event with their co-workers. Fair enough - you don't have to go.
But there are often ramifications...
There is often a connection between not participating (i.e. "playing ball") and not getting "your way" later on.
People who "play ball" often get treated better later on because you are seen as a "good person", someone who respects his/her co-workers, respects the "Korean way", etc.
To us non-Koreans, there may not seem to be a connection between skipping out on volleyball and getting screwed over later, but often there is.
Case A: Native Teacher A makes excuses and rarely participates in group activities, rarely talks to others, etc. Spends all day playing on the computer. Gets pissed off when the principal / hagwon owner tells him that he has to make do with his broken-down washing machine.
Case B: Native Teacher B goes to these events even though they aren't the most fun in the world and cost money. Tries to participate. Is very happy when the principal / hagwon owner gladly buys a new washing machine to replace his old one.
Do what you want, but everything you do has ramifications, good and bad. I've seen it happen over and over and over and over again... |
TRUE DAT!!!!! |
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nene
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Samcheok, Gangwon-do
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulMan6 wrote: |
Here we have a list of people making excuses not to go to a event with their co-workers. Fair enough - you don't have to go.
But there are often ramifications...
There is often a connection between not participating (i.e. "playing ball") and not getting "your way" later on.
People who "play ball" often get treated better later on because you are seen as a "good person", someone who respects his/her co-workers, respects the "Korean way", etc.
To us non-Koreans, there may not seem to be a connection between skipping out on volleyball and getting screwed over later, but often there is.
Case A: Native Teacher A makes excuses and rarely participates in group activities, rarely talks to others, etc. Spends all day playing on the computer. Gets pissed off when the principal / hagwon owner tells him that he has to make do with his broken-down washing machine.
Case B: Native Teacher B goes to these events even though they aren't the most fun in the world and cost money. Tries to participate. Is very happy when the principal / hagwon owner gladly buys a new washing machine to replace his old one.
Do what you want, but everything you do has ramifications, good and bad. I've seen it happen over and over and over and over again... |
Exactly. I'm on the wrong side of this right now. My girlfriend and I arrived cash-strapped, worried about being taken advantage of, and as vegetarians. So when they told us on our first day we have to pay 32k/month for school lunches and 20k/month for after-school dinners (neither of which we would eat), we took a stand. Took a stand on some other issues too. Got our way in each battle, but paid a serious price in terms of general treatment at school, and missing out on benefits some of our friends at other public schools have gotten, like extra time off. Starting second semester now without the girlfriend and with lots of new teachers and a new VP, hoping I can reverse some of the damage, but it's going to be tough at this point.
Bottom line: Play the game. Fork over the cash, go to dinner and smile a lot. At least do it for a month or two. If you can build good relationships at your school, you will be in much better shape for the year. If you don't end up getting along well (which is certainly possible even if you play every card right), then take a stand in a couple months - you will have only lost 50k won and a couple of evenings, and the potential upside is huge (extra weeks off, extra pay for times like when you're being taught Korean, help with any difficulties that come up, etc.) |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| nene wrote: |
| SeoulMan6 wrote: |
Here we have a list of people making excuses not to go to a event with their co-workers. Fair enough - you don't have to go.
But there are often ramifications...
There is often a connection between not participating (i.e. "playing ball") and not getting "your way" later on.
People who "play ball" often get treated better later on because you are seen as a "good person", someone who respects his/her co-workers, respects the "Korean way", etc.
To us non-Koreans, there may not seem to be a connection between skipping out on volleyball and getting screwed over later, but often there is.
Case A: Native Teacher A makes excuses and rarely participates in group activities, rarely talks to others, etc. Spends all day playing on the computer. Gets pissed off when the principal / hagwon owner tells him that he has to make do with his broken-down washing machine.
Case B: Native Teacher B goes to these events even though they aren't the most fun in the world and cost money. Tries to participate. Is very happy when the principal / hagwon owner gladly buys a new washing machine to replace his old one.
Do what you want, but everything you do has ramifications, good and bad. I've seen it happen over and over and over and over again... |
Exactly. I'm on the wrong side of this right now. My girlfriend and I arrived cash-strapped, worried about being taken advantage of, and as vegetarians. So when they told us on our first day we have to pay 32k/month for school lunches and 20k/month for after-school dinners (neither of which we would eat), we took a stand. Took a stand on some other issues too. Got our way in each battle, but paid a serious price in terms of general treatment at school, and missing out on benefits some of our friends at other public schools have gotten, like extra time off. Starting second semester now without the girlfriend and with lots of new teachers and a new VP, hoping I can reverse some of the damage, but it's going to be tough at this point.
Bottom line: Play the game. Fork over the cash, go to dinner and smile a lot. At least do it for a month or two. If you can build good relationships at your school, you will be in much better shape for the year. If you don't end up getting along well (which is certainly possible even if you play every card right), then take a stand in a couple months - you will have only lost 50k won and a couple of evenings, and the potential upside is huge (extra weeks off, extra pay for times like when you're being taught Korean, help with any difficulties that come up, etc.) |
They'll be more ticked off if you take a stand in a couple of months...that's extra cash disappearing.
I think it's best to take a stand from the start (politely). I do not go to school lunches at all, and only go to about 50% of school dinners. I don't like eating noodles and kimchi chigae for every meal. No sense in suffering just because you are afraid of pissing off someone. If they are that childish...just ignore them. Honestly people think that Koreans are more sensitive then they actually are.
Bottom line is there's ways and means of refusing that allow everyone to save face.
And it works even better if you can speak some Korean. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| SeoulMan6 wrote: |
Here we have a list of people making excuses not to go to a event with their co-workers. Fair enough - you don't have to go.
But there are often ramifications...
There is often a connection between not participating (i.e. "playing ball") and not getting "your way" later on.
People who "play ball" often get treated better later on because you are seen as a "good person", someone who respects his/her co-workers, respects the "Korean way", etc. |
Point well taken, but going along to get along only to get a "Ha ha you're a foreigner, so f*ck off!" thrown in your face.... you know, fool me once... that sort of thing. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Well I turned up at practice and flourescent tracksuits weren't in demand but skills were.... so it became a smack-down basically, me versus a load of old woman. I don't have to pay for the pleasure so I'm happy to spend an hour getting paid to feel good about my mediocre volleyball skills.
I'll turn up at the first couple of staff parties, if there's no potential for extreme drunkness from all involved then I'll make my excuses for the next lot. (Until the one in my last month when I'll just get destroyed whether they're drinking or not :) |
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driftingfocus
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I just say that me and some other foreigners were already planning to go out.
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http://www.driftingfocus.com/blogs/ |
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SeoulShakin
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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I went to about 95% of the after school gatherings, and ate lunch with the staff every day. I was told that they "liked me more because I ate with them". Seems dumb, but it's how it works here.
Every now and then when I really didn't want to go to something I just said "ohhhh no! I wish I had a little notice about this, I'd really like to go, but I already made plans with my friend to go to dongdaemun market" or something of the likes. Really stress how disappointed you are that you can't go, and that you wish you had known sooner. When I did that, I was told 3 days in advance of the next outing, and went gladly, and told them how happy I was that I was told about it so I could make sure I could attend.
That way, I got the notice for the events that I thought was common sense, and I didn't have to make anyone lose face in the process. Worked out pretty well. |
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UncleAlex
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Saying NO to teacher parties and after PS volleyball |
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| nicam wrote: |
While I would love to fork over my 20,000 Won and join today's teacher party, which starts waaaay after my school hours, I live really far from my school and just don't want to a) waste the food I prepared for tonight because I had no prior notice about the party, and b) get home really late because of my commute.
How do I... CAN I say no and not cause any hard feelings? |
If you happen to attend the dinner party anyway, you'll discover that many teachers decided not to because of prior engagements or family duties.  |
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Big Mac
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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It's so dumb that Koreans will like you more if you play volleyball with them or eat the horrible lunches that even they complain about.
I will be quite happy to go out and drink soju with them and eat galbi. I'll be more than happy to go to the noraebong with them too. I never get invited to those events anymore.
I hate volleyball, and refuse to play. If they don't like that, and decide to treat me differently because of my personal choice not to play, then that's their problem, not mine. It's so silly that some teachers claim it is "part of their job" to play volleyball with the other teachers, even if they don't like volleyball.
I also refuse to pay for a lunch that I fail to eat every day because it is so disgustingly bad. If they don't like the fact that I have chosen not to eat their crappy lunches and decide to treat me differently because of that, it's their problem, not mine.
The longer I am in Korea, the less I feel like trying to keep Koreans happy by doing things I don't like to do. That's why I'm pretty close to being ready to leave. |
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bundangbabo
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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When I first came to my PS I read the boards and took on the advice given on here and I would bring stuff in like chocolate, rice cakes and fruit, bow to everyone and say hello to everybody - the only thing I didn't do in my first 6 months was perform a personal fan dance for everyone on the staff - guess what? I wasn't invited anywhere and included in anything.
If they like you - they will include you - if they don't. You will be excluded - you have no control in how you are percieved.
I can look in the mirror and say I am a bloody good teacher, I turn in smart and neat and I smell nice everyday and I never take the piss but it hasn't worked - the first time ever in history the 'bundangbabo' charm offensive has failed.
I have to say though - the Korean male teachers and students moving around the furniture in the staffroom was pitiful to watch and I lent them and the female teachers in my office a hand - the very pretty new Korean language teacher commented later on 'I saw you moving the furniture - very strong!' 
So at least I have made one new fan at this late stage! |
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Big Mac
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:15 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you bundangbabo. Sometimes we can bend over backwards to try to make them love us, and at least a certain segment of the teachers at our school (most likely, the older, racist male teachers) will still hate you simply because you are a foreigner.
I almost got into a fist fight with one of the older adjoshi teachers at my school a couple of weeks ago. He came up to me in the teachers room and gave me the most evil stare I've ever got in my life. He literally stared me down for at least a minute and made me feel like complete crap. He was upset because I was sitting on the edge of a desk which he said was against "Korean tradition." That's fine, but why the evil stare? All I can think is that he is a racist person with a chip on his shoulder because I am not Korean and working at his school. That stare could not have been about sitting on the edge of a desk. I've never had an encounter with this guy before...never even noticed him before.
After thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized why he might have done that and I was really upset. I told my co-teacher how upset I was, and he heard me and pulled my co-teacher aside to talk to her. She later told me that he said some really horrible things about me, but wouldn't tell me what. I could tell from his tone he wasn't saying nice things, and I kind of lost my temper and said a few choice words to him that I'm not sure he understood. He went to punch me when my co-teacher pushed him down the hall away from me.
This is the kind of racist, small-minded attitudes we face in these schools. It's also why a lot of us don't get invited to school functions. I'm pretty sure it's because the school is trying to protect us from the hatred and to keep members of their own kind from losing face. |
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marlow
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Shouldn't we be planning our lessons during the afternoons? Who has time for volleyball? |
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bundangbabo
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| Big Mac wrote: |
I agree with you bundangbabo. Sometimes we can bend over backwards to try to make them love us, and at least a certain segment of the teachers at our school (most likely, the older, racist male teachers) will still hate you simply because you are a foreigner.
I almost got into a fist fight with one of the older adjoshi teachers at my school a couple of weeks ago. He came up to me in the teachers room and gave me the most evil stare I've ever got in my life. He literally stared me down for at least a minute and made me feel like complete crap. He was upset because I was sitting on the edge of a desk which he said was against "Korean tradition." That's fine, but why the evil stare? All I can think is that he is a racist person with a chip on his shoulder because I am not Korean and working at his school. That stare could not have been about sitting on the edge of a desk. I've never had an encounter with this guy before...never even noticed him before.
After thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized why he might have done that and I was really upset. I told my co-teacher how upset I was, and he heard me and pulled my co-teacher aside to talk to her. She later told me that he said some really horrible things about me, but wouldn't tell me what. I could tell from his tone he wasn't saying nice things, and I kind of lost my temper and said a few choice words to him that I'm not sure he understood. He went to punch me when my co-teacher pushed him down the hall away from me.
This is the kind of racist, small-minded attitudes we face in these schools. It's also why a lot of us don't get invited to school functions. I'm pretty sure it's because the school is trying to protect us from the hatred and to keep members of their own kind from losing face. |
You know - you are absolutley right - it is the older male teachers (and they are the ones in charge) who are the ones with the attitude - the younger teachers are delightful - in my case both male and female but they are powerless in the confucian chain of command - they are above us in the scheme of things but not by much - I am above the caretaker and below the secetarial staff. (and I have no problem with that by the way - they are splendid people - but I should be way above some of the so-called teachers at the school though!)
A lot of Koreans of this paticular nature will make a big thing of wanting to punch you but when it would have come down to brass tacks you would have walloped him all over the playground mate - next time when there is just you and him (he will be shitting himself) just wink and tell him he is lucky you are on away ground and his jaw is in one piece. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
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he went to punch you?
I actually get along very well with the older male teachers at my school - but one of them going to punch me?
hmmm.. let's see..... half my height and half my weight? (that's overstating it, but they'll be giving up anywhere from 5-7 inches in height and at least 60 lbs of weight.
No... I don't think there is any amount of "Korean pride" that would push them toward such a suicidal step. |
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nene
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Samcheok, Gangwon-do
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Big Mac wrote: |
I almost got into a fist fight with one of the older adjoshi teachers at my school a couple of weeks ago. He came up to me in the teachers room and gave me the most evil stare I've ever got in my life. He literally stared me down for at least a minute and made me feel like complete crap. He was upset because I was sitting on the edge of a desk which he said was against "Korean tradition." That's fine, but why the evil stare? All I can think is that he is a racist person with a chip on his shoulder because I am not Korean and working at his school. That stare could not have been about sitting on the edge of a desk. I've never had an encounter with this guy before...never even noticed him before.
After thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized why he might have done that and I was really upset. I told my co-teacher how upset I was, and he heard me and pulled my co-teacher aside to talk to her. She later told me that he said some really horrible things about me, but wouldn't tell me what. I could tell from his tone he wasn't saying nice things, and I kind of lost my temper and said a few choice words to him that I'm not sure he understood. He went to punch me when my co-teacher pushed him down the hall away from me. |
Damn dude - that's pretty nuts. I've gotten some evil stares, but that's crazy.
For sure, xenophobia is rampant and emotional balance seems to be optional. And yeah, of course, sometimes no matter what you do, they may not like you, just like anyone anywhere. Still, some teachers do form good relationships with their schools... if you're new, I encourage you to aim for that... if you can pull it off, it will make your life a lot better. If you can't, it's probably not your fault... sometimes it's just not possible in this culture. |
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