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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: WHO ARE THE COWARDS ON RACE ATTY GEN HOLDER REFERS TO? |
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Recently, as you might have heard, the new Attorney General Eric Holder decided to address the race question in America. In the supposed spirit of reconciliation, Holder accused Americans of being a nation of cowards for failing to confront our racial past. And may I suggest that Holder himself is cowardly for not naming names, or groups, as it were.
President Obama was asked to comment on this yesterday:
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Obama gently departs from Holder's race comment
Sat Mar 7, 2009
WASHINGTON � President Barack Obama says he would not have used the same language that Eric Holder did last month when the attorney general declared that the United States is a nation of cowards on matters of race.
"We've made enormous progress and we shouldn't lose sight of that," Obama told The New York Times in an interview posted on the newspaper's Web site Saturday.
The president said he understood Holder to be saying the country often is uncomfortable talking about race until there's a racial flare-up or conflict and that the nation probably could be more constructive in facing up to slavery and discrimination.
Obama gently departed from the tone of the comments by the country's first black attorney general.
The president said he is not someone who believes that constantly talking about race can solve racial tensions. To address that problem, it will mean fixing the economy, putting people to work, making sure that people have health care and ensuring that children are learning, Obama said.
"I think if we do that, then we'll probably have more fruitful conversations," Obama said in the interview Friday aboard Air Force One.
In a speech to Justice Department employees marking Black History Month, Holder said that while the country has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, "in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards." |
Kudos to Obama for at least dousing the fire with water instead of gasoline but even his response leaves me wondering. I wholeheartedly agree with him that constantly talking about race--which victimhood mentality Blacks and their White liberal sympathizers are wont to do--is not constructive. But he also hints at a sense of agreement with Holder when he says that "we've made enormous progress." While that is certainly true (and something many Western Europeans fail to notice), one can't help but wonder whether, like Holder, he holds Whites primarily responsible for the lack of even more progress.
IF he does (and we can readily infer that Holder does), then he's not only dead wrong but hypocritical. Consider this:
1. Most gang warfare not involving drug turf wars is between Blacks and Latinos.
2. Hispanic/Latino educators have gone on record in Texas and California as desiring to look out for their own interests--same as Blacks.
3. Discrimination (real or perceived) against Asian Americans in the college admissions process is conveniently overlooked. Indeed, you never hear a word from Black leaders about it. Meanwhile, every year, UC-Berkeley, UCLA, (and until recently UT-Austin and Univ Michigan, among others) cap the enrollment of Asian Americans to make room for other minorities. This practice is especially egregious in law school admissions, of which even Holder and Obama were beneficiaries.
4. Incidents of police brutality often involve Black officers against Latino suspects and vice versa. It is not strictly a White-on-Black situation.
5. How much effort has the current administration made to appoint Hispanics/Latinos to the Cabinet and other high-ranking posts?
6. What about hate crimes by Blacks against Whites? They happen every year but are seldom reported in the mainstream media.
7. And then there's the elephant in the parlor: the vast majority of violence against Blacks nowadays is perpetrated by other Blacks. Say nothing of the rise in out-of-wedlock births (nearly 75%), the incidence of HIV and STDs disproportionate to other demographic groups, etc.
8. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Black leaders on the Left rarely if ever acknowledge one glaring fact: they are forever playing the race card and crying foul, forever bemoaning their plight despite the fact that the MAJORITY of Blacks no longer live in poverty and haven't for more than 15 years and, worse yet, immediately accuse any White person, however well-meaning, of being racist the moment we try to actually address the subject of race.
Holder has selective memory loss, evidently. And of course, no one on the Left has called him out on this. Obama has qualified his comments but only when prodded by journalists.
Do you find this as galling as I do? What say you in response to Holder? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Moyers last Friday had a good segment on this. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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"A nation of cowards"
It seems to suggest a collective, shared failure. Whites, blacks, latinos, asians, etc. all included.
If this is the most controversial thing Holder says as Attorney General, I think he'll be golden as far as avoiding gaffes goes. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Bill Moyers last Friday had a good segment on this. |
Can you link anything on that here?
________
Kuros, I think you have missed the longstanding point that discussions in the American left re: race [, class, or gender] almost always involve a very specifically arranged cast of characters, with the usual suspects and the usual victims, all playing their proper roles, etc. And all of this has little to do with the pattern that ManintheMiddle illustrates, above. In fact, the American left would do a little theoretical-jiujitsu routine to turn all of that around so that we could be certain in reaffirming just who has caused all of that...
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Nice discussion re: code words and problems in language. I like his politics. He also affirms my point to Kuros between approximately 5:50 and 6:50.
Also, after looking at E. Holder's assertion, as a grader, I would mark it thus...
| Eric Holder wrote: |
| Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and we, I believe, continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards. |
Omit needless words. Too many disclaimers here. You are a law-school graduate. You above all others should appreciate the value in getting to the point. Get to your point here. What do you mean by "essentially a nation of cowards?" And, as ManintheMiddle asks, please clarify who exactly you want to call "coward" here. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about other people, but I rather enjoy how the Right always manages to portray itself as the victim of racial minorities, blue collar workers, women, foreigners...you name it, the Right is the victim.
Sometimes it even brings a tear to my eye. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:51 am Post subject: |
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YataBoy:
Leave it to you to spin this story with your usual snide remarks. Those of us in the Middle and on the Right who happen to be White don't raise the banner of victimhood (that's for the Left to do). No, what we most object to is the utter hypocrisy of these charges and the relentless effort to try to make us confess, collectively, for ancestral wrongs, real or imagined.
Blacks do not have a monopoly on virtue. There was a time when the civil rights movement had moral clarity and purpose. Most of that died in April, 1968, however.
Kuros suggested:
| Quote: |
| It seems to suggest a collective, shared failure. Whites, blacks, latinos, asians, etc. all included. |
Obama had this to say after a mild rebuke of Holder: We're oftentimes uncomfortable with talking about race until there's some sort of racial flare-up or conflict," he said, adding, "We could probably be more constructive in facing up to sort of the painful legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and discrimination."
Uh, sounds like they're talking about White folks to me. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Nice discussion re: code words and problems in language. I like his politics. He also affirms my point to Kuros between approximately 5:50 and 6:50.
Also, after looking at E. Holder's assertion, as a grader, I would mark it thus...
| Eric Holder wrote: |
| Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and we, I believe, continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards. |
Omit needless words. Too many disclaimers here. You are a law-school graduate. You above all others should appreciate the value in getting to the point. Get to your point here. What do you mean by "essentially a nation of cowards?" And, as ManintheMiddle asks, please clarify who exactly you want to call "coward" here. |
Yeah, the speech was meandering and tedious. But again, I think when you say "nation" you mean the entire nation. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| ...I think when you say "nation" you mean the entire nation. |
I think one could interpret his remarks exactly as you say. He is using "we." I also think, being familiar with this discourse as an intellectual, indeed being familiar with those intellectuals who have created and now teach this discourse, that there is another angle.
When these intellectuals speak of "the nation," they do not believe that this refers to everyone who lives within its borders. They believe and constantly allege that elites and power-holders, especially upper- and middle-class, business-oriented, heterosexual, white males, sometimes called "the bourgeoisie," if the writer is more Marxist than feminist or merely "cultural," from the 1790s to the present, have included mostly themselves and largely excluded others (I should say Others, but I am tired of that part of the discourse), namely lower-class males and females, mainly lower-class males and females of color, and especially homosexuals -- and lately, "disabled people" or "people with disabilities" (they have recently branded one of these phrases acceptable and angrily dismissed the other as "offensive," I cannot recall which is which, however, although I think the latter offends them because they allege that disabilities are not real, only socially-constructed and imposed). They spent 45 minutes another night discussing whether we should take offense to the word "hybrid," even when talking about cars, because it contains embedded racism and therefore harms "the people." I kid you not.
I hope that makes sense. I do not know how deeply into this intellectual current E. Holder has swum. Has he taken some classes and read some books, has he interacted with this but not that academic? Where is he getting his information and analysis and how deeply has he looked into it? I suspect that he has familiarized himself with it only superficially.
A lot of sensational claims in this intellectual current, Kuros. I was in a seminar recently where the doctoral candidates decided to pronounce that white America has failed to reconcile itself with its position as "masters." A small minority of us countered that the Civil War ended slavery in the 1860s, the Civil Rights movt ended Jim Crow and incorporated African-Americans as full citizens in the 1960s, and none of us should feel responsible, and sit in this room, wringing our hands together, as "unrepentant masters and racists" who constantly harm the others because, frankly, that is absurd. We lost that argument because the others had us in numbers, they became "offended" by our position, and they glared us down. Yes, that is exactly how it works.
In any case, E. Holder is using the right "race, class, and gender" code phrases, Kuros. He is, to one degree or another reflecting this current. And I am fairly certain that he is taking a shot at only some of us, and not all of us, within America's borders. Who, for example, do you think he thinks emanates "racism" and who do you think he thinks receives it? And what exactly is it that "we" should confess to, agree to, or simply do, to satisfy him that we have confronted or are confronting racism in America...? |
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