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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: I need a good grammar book |
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I'm teaching high school and the other English teachers are asking me grammar questions. It's not enough to say, "This is correct, this is incorrect." They want to know the why and the reason.
I know when somethign is right or wrong grammatically, but often times I don't know the WHY. So, I need a good grammar book to spruce up on all the rules.
I had this conversation earlier:
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teacher: In the sentence "The serene landscape had a powerful hold on us." What if I make "hold" into "Holding." Can I do that?
Me: Holding would be incorrect. Hold is the correct form of the word.
teacher: Why?
Me: I don't know. I just know that it is incorrect if you put holding.
Teacher: Probably because you didn't study grammar.
Me: ...... |
So, I want a good grammar book so I can actually explain WHY something is the way it is.
What compounds things is that the paragraphs/texts these high school teachers use in class are a mess. Fragments, run ons, and incomplete phrases, etc... They want me to explain a grammar point on a single word, when the entire sentence and paragraph is written incorrectly. When I try to tell them that the whole thing is a mess, they get really defensive and insist that I'm not "reading it correctly". |
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hugekebab
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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The 'bible' of English grammar is generally accepted to be Michael Swan, Practical English Usage, Oxford.
Pick up an older edition second hand one because the new one is really expensive.
The problem you mention about complete *beep* ups of paragraphs being brought to you to 'correct' (rewrite) is a common problem here, just ignore how bad the paragraph is and satisfy their question about the single word.Don't tell them it's all rubbish, when of course, it actually is a complete mess. That way they keep face and you will be better liked.
The reason they told you 'you're not reading correctly' is because you were making them lose face by pointing it out. |
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icnelly
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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For a dense (read encompassing) guide with activities: The Grammar Book
I studied with this more basic book and one other in my Uni. level grammar course: Doing Grammar
"A powerful hold" is a noun phrase with "hold" as the noun. Changing it to "holding" would change the meaning by adding a gerund as the noun, or turn it into an adjective phrase: neither would correctly/meaningfully fill the direct object slot needed for "had" as a transitive verb in this specific example. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Would I be able to find these books at Kyobo? |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: I need a good grammar book |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
I had this conversation earlier:
| Quote: |
| teacher: In the sentence "The serene landscape had a powerful hold on us." What if I make "hold" into "Holding." Can I do that? |
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No.
Because "hold" is not a verb in this sentence.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hold%5B2%5D
It's a noun.
You don't need a grammar book, you need a dictionary.
NOW, let's say that's just a bad example, and you really want a grammar book you can trust. The gold standard for grammar in writing in the United States for the past 40 years has been Warriner's English Composition and Grammar, Harcourt-Brace-Jovanovich. I have Second Course in front of me right now, ISBN 0-15-311732-X |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Straphanger is correct there...nicely done.
Some of the books mentioned are quite useful
My recommendations in order are:
The Grammar Book - Marianne Celce Murcia/ Diane Larson Freeman
this is an indepth look at grammar as related to ESL.
Practical English Usage Third Edition - Michael - (I am not sure what price hugekabob is referring to, but I do know that in Canada it was expensive,(i think more than $45), but at the kyobo bookstore is was only 22,400 won
Grammar for English Language Teachers - Martin Parrot
While not specifically grammar related...
Words and Rules...Steven Pinker
The Language Instinct...Steven Pinker
Pinker has some great insights to the nature of the English language.
Can prove to be very useful when trying to explain the oddities of the English language to your fellow teachers and students.
Good luck with your adventures into the world of grammar.  |
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jiberish
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Location: The Carribean Bay Wrestler
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| "Essential Grammar In Use" is a great book. Little boring to look at. But it has information on just about every rule and exercises for each of them. You should be able to find it in the bookstore too. |
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Chet Wautlands
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry OP, but I believe the topic of your post should be: I need a well grammar book.
Grammar can be tricking often! |
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refikaM
Joined: 06 May 2006
Location: Gangwondo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: grammar |
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| No.. grammar can be tricked often.. |
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Chet Wautlands
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: grammar |
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| refikaM wrote: |
| No.. grammar can be tricked often.. |
Oops, right! I forgot that grammars are incountable. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Basic English Grammar by Betty Schramfer Azar.
With Exercises for ESL- EFL students |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jiberish wrote: |
| "Essential Grammar In Use" is a great book. Little boring to look at. But it has information on just about every rule and exercises for each of them. You should be able to find it in the bookstore too. |
I second this book.
OP, I am in the same position as you are. Too many grammar questions and I was a little sick of answering with "It just sounds better".
Grmmar in use by raymond Murphy
is really good because it's easy, in english, and completley explicit. It really makes light of rules we didn't even know we follow.
For example, Unit 4 (intermediate edition) covers present continous like:
They are eating
it is raining
I am flying
they are dyiing
But there are some irregular verbs such as
Like, love, hate, want, need prefer... etc that cannot be used with it.
So we woudl never say
She is liking
We are wanting.
She is prefering
These are the kind of things that we know inductively, but to see them in an explicit way really helps with teaching. |
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maingman
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Location: left Korea
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
| OP, I am in the same position as you are. Too many grammar questions and I was a little sick of answering with "It just sounds better". |
How did you answer these questions as an English teacher back home? |
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