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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: US closer to total ban on cluster bombs |
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Obama takes US closer to total ban on cluster bombs
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The United States has stepped closer to a total ban on the use and export of cluster bombs with the signing by Barack Obama of a new permanent law that would make it almost impossible for the US to sell the controversial weapons.
The decision was hailed by opponents of the weapons as a "major turnaround in US policy" that overrode Pentagon calls to permit their continued export.
The new legislation, tacked on to a huge budget bill, was passed earlier this week by Congress and now sets such stringent rules for the bombs' use, including a ban on sales where they might be suspected of being used where civilians are present, that it seems unlikely the US could export them again.
Researchers believe the US has transferred hundreds of thousands of cluster munitions, containing tens of millions of unreliable and inaccurate bomblets, to 28 countries. They are regarded by those who campaign against their use as indiscriminate and dangerous to clear up.
Under the new rules, the air and artillery-deployed weapons, which scatter hundreds of bomblets, are required to have a self-destruct failure rate of less than 1%, which few of the US cluster bombs meet, before being cleared for sale.
Despite a temporary ban having been in place, the Pentagon made it clear last year that it was keen to see the export of the weapons again.
The new law comes into force amid growing pressure from Congress for a complete ban on their use, even by the US military. International opposition to cluster bombs, which maim and kill civilians long after they have been fired during conflicts, has been hardening rapidly since the Israeli Defence Forces fired more than 1m into southern Lebanon during the 2006 war with Hezbollah. Last year, a treaty limiting their use was signed by 95 countries, including most of America's Nato allies - but not the US.
The 2008 treaty has in effect dried up the potential market for US-manufactured munitions, but in a policy document put out by the Pentagon last year, the US defence department called for it to be allowed to export cluster bombs for another 10 years.
"This permanent export ban is a major turnaround in US policy," said Steve Goose, arms division director at Human Rights Watch, which has campaigned against cluster munitions. "It brings Washington into closer alignment with international opinion on this terrible weapon.
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Bloody good stuff. I'm beginning to like this Obama chap.
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Goose said: "The export ban moves the US one step closer to the position taken by nearly 100 nations, including its closest Nato allies, that have signed the treaty banning cluster munitions. A US decision to sign would certainly signal President Obama's commitment to multilateral diplomacy."
The move was also welcomed by the US Campaign to Ban Landmines. "What is important is the growing awareness that these weapons are beyond the pale," said Lora Lumpe. "This is a significant step towards seeing these weapons banned entirely. The door is closing on cluster munitions. When Georgia and Russia both used them in the war in South Ossetia last year they denied their use, because they realise how unacceptable the use of cluster bombs is now becoming." |
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CyberGuy
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Location: Daejeon, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Oh well, I guess they already are running short of humans to massacre in marriage ceremonies in Afghanistan. So, makes sense to think about reducing the useless stuff.
However, need not to say Obama is much better than the chimps who ruled before. |
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wesharris
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: |
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That's rather stupid .
War is hell.
Cluster based munitions are effective anti personnel devices.
Therefore they should be used more widely, not in a lesser fashion
Such rulings are short sighted, and ignorant of the needs of war.
_+_
Wes |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| wesharris wrote: |
That's rather stupid .
War is hell.
Cluster based munitions are effective anti personnel devices.
Therefore they should be used more widely, not in a lesser fashion
Such rulings are short sighted, and ignorant of the needs of war.
_+_
Wes |
I'm pretty sure the purpose of dropping said bombs is to kill the enemy, but what usually happens is that these unexploded bomblets kill children and civilians long after said bombs have dropped.
Which in turn, fuel hatred of the US and lead to adding more members of terrorist groups.
Leave the thinking to the thinkers, please. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Big Bird,
Its true that cluster bombs all too often kill and maim children. But there's one narrow use for them that's appropriate: destroying airfields. Pockmarking airfields is more effective than putting a massive hole in them (and that's harder to do). And really, children shouldn't be near airfields anyway.
I don't know where I stand on this ban. The problem with weapons like clusterbombs is that they have a specific intended use, and they're often stretched beyond that use.
I agree entirely with a ban on SS cluster bombs but AS cluster bombs have the narrow use. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Big Bird,
Its true that cluster bombs all too often kill and maim children. But there's one narrow use for them that's appropriate: destroying airfields. Pockmarking airfields is more effective than putting a massive hole in them (and that's harder to do). And really, children shouldn't be near airfields anyway.
I don't know where I stand on this ban. The problem with weapons like clusterbombs is that they have a specific intended use, and they're often stretched beyond that use.
I agree entirely with a ban on SS cluster bombs but AS cluster bombs have the narrow use. |
Apparantly then much of Southern Lebanon could be considered one enornmous airfield. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Big Bird,
Its true that cluster bombs all too often kill and maim children. But there's one narrow use for them that's appropriate: destroying airfields. Pockmarking airfields is more effective than putting a massive hole in them (and that's harder to do). And really, children shouldn't be near airfields anyway.
I don't know where I stand on this ban. The problem with weapons like clusterbombs is that they have a specific intended use, and they're often stretched beyond that use.
I agree entirely with a ban on SS cluster bombs but AS cluster bombs have the narrow use. |
Apparantly then much of Southern Lebanon could be considered one enornmous airfield. |
The US banning clusterbombs isnt going to change Israeli behavior. You could fail to accomplish the same result by explicitly narrowing the use of clusterbombs for airstrips. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Haha. Like any nation you sell them to is just going to use them on airfields because they're told to.
Telling Israel only to drop bombs on airfield is not going to change their behaviour. Better not to sell any of them to her in the first place.
Besides, didn't a US investigation actually determine that Israel had used them illegally in 2006? When did Israel ever pay too much attention to the rules on how a weapon is supposed to be used? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Haha. Like any nation you sell them to is just going to use them on airfields because they're told to.
Telling Israel only to drop bombs on airfield is not going to change their behaviour. Better not to sell any of them to her in the first place.
Besides, didn't a US investigation actually determine that Israel had used them illegally in 2006? When did Israel ever pay too much attention to the rules on how a weapon is supposed to be used? |
I don't know what to say. If it were up to me, Israel would get free visas instead of free weapons. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Haha. Like any nation you sell them to is just going to use them on airfields because they're told to.
Telling Israel only to drop bombs on airfield is not going to change their behaviour. Better not to sell any of them to her in the first place.
Besides, didn't a US investigation actually determine that Israel had used them illegally in 2006? When did Israel ever pay too much attention to the rules on how a weapon is supposed to be used? |
While not condoning Israel's behaviour, it's hard to be polite and lawful when you're surrounded by enemies that seek your destruction. That has been the reality for most of the last 60 years. |
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