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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| I really don't know what Obama can do. We're so fucked. |
Abolishing the Federal Reserve Board and printing our own money to save billions in interest paid to those private bankers, and going back on a gold standard would be a couple of good places to start. |
And if the US and other OECD nations adopted a gold standard, what happens to poor nations who can't afford to buy the gold to back their currency? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| I really don't know what Obama can do. We're so fucked. |
Abolishing the Federal Reserve Board and printing our own money to save billions in interest paid to those private bankers, and going back on a gold standard would be a couple of good places to start. |
And if the US and other OECD nations adopted a gold standard, what happens to poor nations who can't afford to buy the gold to back their currency? |
When gold is money, no nation actually needs to have their own currency. Poor countries don't need to have their own airlines either, they just think they do.
Ideally, all money would be issued by private banks - not central banks, not governments, not government banks nor any other institution owned or created by government.
Governments are, and have always been, the most dishonest groups of people in the world. Governments always debase or inflate the currency when they can get away with it.
On a 100% gold standard, the government is prohibited by law or by the Constitution from issuing any money without that money being backed by gold. This means the end of inflation and the end of business cycles. But, it restricts the power of greedy socialists to rob the middle class and the poor and redistribute the wealth to themselves and their powerful friends and supporters.
So, Ponzi economics was created by the fascist-socialists, fabian socialists, fools and feeble minded to let them debase the currency, destroy the economy, rob the poor and middle class, enrich themselves, and multiply the size, scope and power of themselves, the ruling classes and the government.
Going back on a 100% gold standard is essential for the future economic stability, growth, and prosperity of the world. It is essential for the poor and middle classes to allow them to save and invest safely. It is essential for the working classes to allow them to work, educate their children, save for retirement and increase their general well being.
Going back on a 100% gold standard is essential as having food to eat.
We would not prohibit some people from eating because of the question: "What about the hungry poor people?" Rather, we allow the free market to feed the world, and worry separately about those few who are poor and hungry. (Since large scale poverty and famine are also the result of governments interfering in the marketplace, eliminating socialism from the world will cure these problems.)
Likewise, we must have a gold standard. We can then take steps to make sure money ciruculates in every country, rich or poor. Of course, it is already well understood that in any country with a free market, gold backed money will circulate freely, even if none is issued by that country. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| There is not going to be a system of total private currencies, unhinged from states. It just won't happen. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| There is not going to be a system of total private currencies, unhinged from states. It just won't happen. |
Many people thought the Soviet Union would never fall.
Many people in the communist bloc countries didn't know how they could eat if the government didn't provide them with food lines to wait in for a few crumbs of bread.
Bubbles, recessions, depressions, unemployment, poverty and market crashes are all caused by the Ponzi economics of the socialist governments of the world, and slowly the people are learning.
The USSR has fallen.
The world has moved closer to a free market in most countries for the provision of food.
Eventually, enough people will become literate enough to understand that socialism is the enemy and we need free market money. Then, we will have it. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| I totally disagree. The state will only become stronger from this. "The People" seem to blame "the market". |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| I totally disagree. The state will only become stronger from this. "The People" seem to blame "the market". |
No. The Ponzi economists and the politically powerful Democrats are blaming the market.
A large portion of the media, being economically illiterate, blame the market.
A large portion of the general public has listened to the first two groups, and yes, they blame the market.
But, this time, unlike the First Great Depression, there are millions of people who do NOT blame the market. And they are making videos on YouTube, and they are posting blogs, and they are making appearances on various cable TV and radio networks, and the truth is spreading.
No, it probably won't be enough to get free market money this time around. That will come only after we have a working gold standard and people push to perfect it.
We will go on a gold standard after the govenment has failed so completely, that the majority rises up to bring down the rulers, by ballots or bullets is not material, but by the power of the people it will one day come.
We will get a government gold standard if Obama's Ponzi economic plan is even more devastating than FDR's (Fascist Democrat Roosevelt). Since we are still living in this one, and Obama's advisors are still conspiring and conniving to create further corruption and chaos we cannot yet conclude what catastrophy will come in the final culmination of the current crash. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:32 am Post subject: |
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The business class also tends to be corrupt. If the government is run by people who actually have noble qualities, they can check business people from exploiting laborers, the general mass of people, poor animals, and the environment as a whole.
Market economic models also neglect to factor in the actual cost of doing business in terms of environmental and moral destruction, etc.
That said, Vedic culture has always supported the gold standard - or at least something of universally recognized value as the basis of currency.
Here's an excerpt from a conversation Srila Prabhupada had with a couple disciples about the cause of inflation ...
Prajapati: Actually, I was concerned this morning about inflation. The government and the newspapers, they say the biggest problem today is inflation. From our Krsna conscious standpoint, how can we cure this problem of inflation?
Prabhupada: It is very simple. Don't accept paper currency. It must be gold or some metal worth. Just like one dollar, it must be worth one dollar metal. Then it is solved. But they want to cheat. How it can be solved? Because if I pay you one dollar, I must pay you value for one dollar. But it is the cheating process is going on, "I pay you one dollar, a piece of paper. That's all." So you accept cheating, and I also cheat. Government allows. So how the problem can be solved? It is cheating. But the government allows it as law. And you accept, I accept. Then how they can be solved, solution? This is the solution.
Prajapati: In the economy itself there isn't actually enough money to, that's even in the banks...
Prabhupada: That is cheating. Therefore I say cheating. I have no money. I give you simply paper. I promise to pay hundred dollars. What is the use of that promise if I have no money? But you want to be cheated. I cheat you. That's all. You are satisfied of being cheated by me; so I take the advantage and I cheat you. I give you a paper. That's all.
Bahulasva: Real money is gold and silver.
Prabhupada: Any... It must be value. According to the market price, it must be value. Whatever it may be. Gold is taken, because gold is the most valuable metal. A small piece of gold, it can carry two hundred dollars. But if I give you iron, then you have to bring another, what is called, bus, to carry it. (laughter) So therefore gold standard is accepted everywhere. There is a standard price of gold, so when I pay you money, it must be, carry the value in gold. That's all. Then there is no inflation. The people want to be cheated, and people cheat. That's all. (December 31, 1973, Los Angeles)
http://thesolutioncommunity.blogspot.com/ |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: |
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OP,
No matter how much Rush whines and complains, it won't be the Obama economy until the general public says so. So far, something like 80% say Obama inherited this economy. That means it is still Bush's economy. Sorry. |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Ideally, all money would be issued by private banks - not central banks, not governments, not government banks nor any other institution owned or created by government. |
Ugh. It's been done before and was a horrible failure. Michigan allowed it in the 1830's and what do you imagine happened?
Banks took in US dollars, gold and silver from depositors and issued their currency. Sometimes the bank failed, sometimes the banker just ran off with everyone's money. But the result was the same. All the money they issued became worthless. Private currencies would simply increase the number of Ponzi schemes, not reduce them.
I swear some people think corporations are founded by angels or Jesus. Because there is no logical reason to believe a corporation (founded and run by people) is inherently more moral than a government (founded and run by people). |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: |
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If this guy is right - and he's been on target for a while now - Obama had better radically change course now - if not sooner ...
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/ |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Our economic problems are a result of years of a complete breakdown in financial discipline. Obama needs to stop worrying about being everybody's friend and start acting like a leader. He's like some of these parents out here with rowdy kids because the parents are too busy trying to be friends with their kids instead of taking the leadership role.
Instead of blowing smoke up our asses the same way W and Reagan also did, Obama needs to be a leader when he talks to us. Coach Bobby Knight is a perfect example of a true leader who always had the most disciplined players who always overachieved. So instead of turning on the TV and seeing these Presidents tell us how great we are out of one side of their mouth and telling the NSA to tap our phones out the other side of their mouth, for once I'd like to see a President level with us like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw7KijRfU-c
If Bobby Knight was President, I don't think these bankers or AIG would have the balls to even ask for a bailout. But since we have no true leadership in America, anything goes, just like a rowdy classroom with kids throwing paper airplanes because the teacher is too busy trying to be their friend. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Economic downturn got you down? Is your career in a rut? Not a problem! Just Obamafy your career!
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Perhaps President Barack Obama can help save the economy in more ways than one: by following his leadership example, employees at all levels can communicate better, lead better and be more valuable to bosses and colleagues -- all of which may help save your careers.
President Obama may have the most powerful job in the world -- but the way he conducts himself provides important lessons that can be used by workers at any level. Whether you're trying to accelerate your career or just hang onto the job you have now, here are five things you can do to "Obamafy" your career: |
...hilarity ensues.
This is from MSN which is apparently telling you that you can save your career by following the examples of the exalted one. |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
OP,
No matter how much Rush whines and complains, it won't be the Obama economy until the general public says so. So far, something like 80% say Obama inherited this economy. That means it is still Bush's economy. Sorry. |
Give it a year or two, Ya-ta. The people will see the light. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
OP,
No matter how much Rush whines and complains, it won't be the Obama economy until the general public says so. So far, something like 80% say Obama inherited this economy. That means it is still Bush's economy. Sorry. |
Give it a year or two, Ya-ta. The people will see the light. |
Well won't make much of a difference if the Republicans continue to implode. They're doing a good job of making the Conservatives in the UK the past 15 years look competent. |
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