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The Obama Economy
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
ReeseDog wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
OP,

No matter how much Rush whines and complains, it won't be the Obama economy until the general public says so. So far, something like 80% say Obama inherited this economy. That means it is still Bush's economy. Sorry.


Give it a year or two, Ya-ta. The people will see the light.


Well won't make much of a difference if the Republicans continue to implode. They're doing a good job of making the Conservatives in the UK the past 15 years look competent.


bb's got a point. Without a credible alternative, Obama's game is the only one in town. Returning to the policies that most people blame for creating the mess isn't going to play.

I remember a teachers lounge conversation in '80 with a hard-core RR fan who was chortling about his win. I said something like, "Maybe it's a good thing he won. People seem to have forgotten why we left the conservative capitalist model in 1932. Maybe they need a good dose of it to remind them."

There was some moderately good economic news last week--to the horror of the anti-Obama crowd. Maybe, just maybe, the plunge is over and things will level out. Question: The week before, the critics were blaming Obama for the market fall. Where were those people last week when the market went up 4 days in a row?
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

There was some moderately good economic news last week--to the horror of the anti-Obama crowd. Maybe, just maybe, the plunge is over and things will level out.


Not a chance.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wet blanket.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess.

Anyways, the stock market going up or down day to day or week to week speaks fully nothing about the overall health of the economy.

We will recover and things will settle down. But we have a great deal more pain first.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bernanke: recession could end in '09

WASHINGTON � America's recession "probably" will end this year if the government succeeds in bolstering the banking system, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said Sunday in a rare television interview...

He said, though, that the United States has averted the risk of plunging into a depression.
"I think we've gotten past that," he said.

It's rare for a sitting Fed chief to grant an interview, whether for broadcast or print. Bernanke said he chose to do so because it's an "extraordinary time" for the country, and it gave him a chance to speak directly to the American public.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090316/ap_on_bi_ge/bernanke60_minutes

I suppose you can become chairman without knowing anything about the job, but my gut argues against it.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Bernanke: recession could end in '09


His track record on the economy actually couldn't be any worse. He is not a reliable source.

Quote:
I suppose you can become chairman without knowing anything about the job, but my gut argues against it.


What do you think he knows? He missed the crises, then said it was "contained" and has been vomiting banking-noise for 18 months. He has not demonstrated a sufficient understanding.

David Rosenberg, Andy Xie, N. Robuini (sp), NNTaleb, S Roach etc have demonstrated their accuracy and reliability. And none of them are with ol'Benny on this.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's your favorite recipe for crow? Wink

I recommend Allrecipe.com, but maybe you have another site you prefer.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya-ta, aren't you getting ahead of yourself here? If the Bush administration were still in office, you'd be as skeptical as can be. Why so much faith in Bernanke? Way too early to say there is light at the end of the tunnel.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mises is right. There is more pain to come. the good news is that the housing market should begin hammiering out a bottom this summer. It is the Bush economy, remmeber it is the bush administration that chose not to invoke the laws against rampant short selling that had been on the books for 50 years which led to the destruction of Bear Sterns and Lehman. I think that the Obama 'fix" is just to get us to get us to the bottom with as little pain as possible. The Republican disaster, borrowing from China to fight two wars so that Americans would not feel the pain, will take a couple of years to work out.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
ya-ta, aren't you getting ahead of yourself here? If the Bush administration were still in office, you'd be as skeptical as can be. Why so much faith in Bernanke? Way too early to say there is light at the end of the tunnel.


bb,
It's called grasping at straws while whistling past the graveyard. Things have been so grim economically since the middle of September that I have consciously chosen to grasp at any good news that comes along. It's better than slitting my own throat.

It isn't that I believe it is absolutely true, but that it could be true. If it turns out true that Obama's strategy has worked, then I get to beat people over the head with it like people have used Reaganomics for the past 30 years. So...impatience to get my turn?
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's most certainly the Bush/Obama economy now, just like the Hoover/Roosevelt economy.

Obama continued the Bush policies, only he made them bigger and worse.

We should get a "W" shaped recovery, as many, including me, have been forewarning. This looks like the beginning of the market runnup for the middle part of the "W." If this is the runnup for the middle part of the "W" it has arrived a little ahead of schedule. I expected the market to turn between the end of March and October. Obama and his team are blowing a lot of "good news" and "the recovery has begun" smoke out there, so it's not clear.

From day to day, and week to week, there are gyrations related to a myriad of factors. This may not yet be the first bottom.

The stockmarket is a predictor. It now seems to be predicting that things will improve slightly in 6 to 9 months. That doesn't mean the depression will be over, but that in 6 to 9 months we will hit the first bottom of the "W" in terms of the actual economy. The market is moving up toward the peak in the middle at the same time the economy is moving down on the first side of the "W."

There will be another downturn, possibly even deeper, later on. The final leg of the "W" will be long and protracted, at best. Maybe we should call it a "U joined with an L."

No matter whether this is the first bottom, or whether we have to wait a few more months, I expect two bottoms and a long drawn out "L" in the second half.


There are plenty of other credit problems waiting to hit the fan. And the Social Security bubble will pop along with all the other entitlements before we have healed from this depression. Obama's doing his best to make that bursting bubble into an explosion as well.

It's going to be a long, sickening ride on this Ponzi socialist roller coaster.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
It's most certainly the Bush/Obama economy now, just like the Hoover/Roosevelt economy.

Obama continued the Bush policies, only he made them bigger and worse.


Yeah, that's about right.

Obama will get to work on his specialties, health care and the green economy, before year's end. But TARP and the stimulus (40% of which is just tax cuts, unbelievable) aren't going to have a significant impact.
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