| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:26 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| buymybook wrote: |
I'm just saying I'd rather not see it in my classroom.
|
Based on your post it is definitely not your classroom
| buymybook wrote: |
Another old man ...
|
I'm quite sure that someone of your limited capacity doesn't even realizes how inappropriate this is, so by all means continue. Ignorance is bliss.
And before you get all indignant in your response, please remember that it is you that lack the ability to control the behavior of children.
Funny really, that you post here complaining about all the external factors that are causing the situation, when in fact it is your own inadequacies that are the problem.
[/b] |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
gregoriomills
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Location: Busan, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tomato wrote: |
| gregoriomills wrote: |
| it's fabulous to have them there for translation purposes. Especially true for lower level students... |
Why?
Second language students learn better without translation.
About half the 학원�s I've worked for used the Let's Go series, which is all English.
I did just fine without translating or without anyone translating for me.
|
Sorry, that Let's Go stuff doesn't work on the high school students, much less technical hs students... you actually have to plan engaging lessons  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Your students are so much more advanced than Let's Go students,
but they can't function without translation as well as Let's Go students? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gregoriomills
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Location: Busan, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No, they're probably much less advanced, actually. I'm saying that earning a 19 year old's attention (who has probably been been unsuccessfully learning English for more than 10 years using the very same material) is a little more complicated than throwing in a Let's Go series every class. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
harlowethrombey
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You have good classes and not so good classes. Some will listen like angels and be engaged, some will stare blankly or sleep.
I would say the key is not to expect either a complete silence=success classroom or a dead poet's society journey of self-discovery.
Different things work for different classes and you should have different expectations, too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tomato wrote: |
Your students are so much more advanced than Let's Go students,
but they can't function without translation as well as Let's Go students? |
Side by Side works a lot better. There's a good reason why it's the best selling ESL/EFL textbook in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
Your students are so much more advanced than Let's Go students,
but they can't function without translation as well as Let's Go students? |
Side by Side works a lot better. There's a good reason why it's the best selling ESL/EFL textbook in Korea. |
At the end of the day they're still books developed for adult learners in smaller classes in an L2 immersion environment. They can provide some good supplementary material, but ultimately the best material is what you can tailor and personalise for individual classes that works in conjunction with what the KETs are teaching. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
Your students are so much more advanced than Let's Go students,
but they can't function without translation as well as Let's Go students? |
Side by Side works a lot better. There's a good reason why it's the best selling ESL/EFL textbook in Korea. |
At the end of the day they're still books developed for adult learners in smaller classes in an L2 immersion environment. They can provide some good supplementary material, but ultimately the best material is what you can tailor and personalise for individual classes that works in conjunction with what the KETs are teaching. |
Some of the Korean teachers are still using textbooks that contain awkward sounding sentences that no one would use in the West like.
" Drinking soda pop is harmful to our bodies"
" How kind you are"
" What a beautiful full moon it is"
You can always substitute more natural expressions like
"Drinking too much pop is bad for our health"
However if the Korean teacher doesn't know any better She/he will insist the students only remember the expressions from the textbook. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gregoriomills
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Location: Busan, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
Your students are so much more advanced than Let's Go students,
but they can't function without translation as well as Let's Go students? |
Side by Side works a lot better. There's a good reason why it's the best selling ESL/EFL textbook in Korea. |
At the end of the day they're still books developed for adult learners in smaller classes in an L2 immersion environment. They can provide some good supplementary material, but ultimately the best material is what you can tailor and personalise for individual classes that works in conjunction with what the KETs are teaching. |
I can agree with that. It's probably some great supplemental material, but I could never make any text THE lesson. Even I would be bored to death. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tomato wrote: |
Your students are so much more advanced than Let's Go students,
but they can't function without translation as well as Let's Go students? |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| Side by Side works a lot better. There's a good reason why it's the best selling ESL/EFL textbook in Korea. |
That still doesn't address my point.
My point is that if little kiddies can get through class without a Korean teacher busting in and translating everything, then why can't older students?
Especially since older students should know how to use a dictionary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tomato wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
Your students are so much more advanced than Let's Go students,
but they can't function without translation as well as Let's Go students? |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| Side by Side works a lot better. There's a good reason why it's the best selling ESL/EFL textbook in Korea. |
That still doesn't address my point.
My point is that if little kiddies can get through class without a Korean teacher busting in and translating everything, then why can't older students?
Especially since older students should know how to use a dictionary. |
They're programmed and accustomed to Korean teachers explaining and doing every last thing for them to the point where they become the least capable humans on earth when it comes to implicit learning. It's a good thing they all wear slip-on shoes or they'd probably be coming to us to help tie their shoes.
This week I was trying out a new introduction to a listening exercise in a couple of classes (I start by giving each student a word and if they hear their word in a paragraph I read twice they put it on the right side of the teacher's desk and if they don't they put it on the left and then we check the words). I did this in a middle school class where I did have a co-teacher and a high school class where I didn't. In the HS class I explained it in English followed with a few words of broken Korean; then a few of the brighter students explained what was supposed to happen to a few of the not-so-bright ones. The end result was that everyone had to depend ultimately on English to figure things out, and the class as a whole did quite well at the exercise. In my middle school class the co-teacher explained exactly what was supposed to happen in Korean after I gave the instructions in English. The end result was that while a few of the brighter students listened to and understood what I said in English, others probably got the message that when the English-speaker is giving English instructions the thing to do is to tune out and wait for the Korean. While the HS class took longer to figure things out, they also had to spend a minute trying to figure out some English instead of fifteen seconds of listening to a language they already know.
Basically if academic HS students need a Korean co-teacher to hold their hand and guide them along it comes down to one of three things:
1. They've given up trying and should not be taking English as a mandatory subject and / or should just not be an academic student.
2. They have the aptitude but the Korean system has totally failed them.
3. The FT is not competent to manage a classroom by him/herself.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of cases of 1,2, and 3 in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
YBS, I wish I could translate your message, print it out, and hand it out to all the Korean teachers I work with.
But I can't. I'm new on the job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
suki
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Co-teacher wants to contribute.
Co-teacher wants to team teach.
Co-teacher wants to write lesson plans.
Co-teacher's English is only mid-level.
Co-teacher feels worthless, and I don't blame her.
Co-teacher feels her only value is to keep order.
My lessons are jam-packed and media rich, and I'm really making a difference with their phonics. I only need the co-teacher for a little help with order. Because I can not give test scores or grades, the only power I have to keep the kids in line - besides in-class work - is the co-teacher. But I would be bored out of my mind as a co-teacher too.
I would welcome team teaching but it doesn't make sense with the way in which the schools are structured - we can't both bring in our expertise in only 50 minutes, and especially not with a class of 40+ which has three levels of students.
My other co-teacher is AWOL, so even if we do work out some system of coordinating lessons, then the lesson plan must fill out the missing co-teacher's place when he doesn't show.
This system sucks for all involved - the poor co-teacher, the students, and for us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hank the Iconoclast
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: Busan
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Teaching alone is fine with all of my academic high school classes. I find it's very difficult with vocational HS students at my schools, since a majority of them are forced into my class and have given up on English. I ask for a Korean teacher in those classes and manage the rest of the classes on my own. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| T-J wrote: |
| buymybook wrote: |
I'm just saying I'd rather not see it in my classroom.
|
Based on your post it is definitely not your classroom
| buymybook wrote: |
Another old man ...
|
I'm quite sure that someone of your limited capacity doesn't even realizes how inappropriate this is, so by all means continue. Ignorance is bliss.
And before you get all indignant in your response, please remember that it is you that lack the ability to control the behavior of children.
Funny really, that you post here complaining about all the external factors that are causing the situation, when in fact it is your own inadequacies that are the problem.
[/b] |
Most teachers if not all have at one time or another referred to a class they teach as "theirs," so it is obvious that you are searching me out to quibble, I'm being followed by the Moonshadow, Moonshadow Moonshadow.
My class, his class, your class, whatever Fella, if you say it's not my class then whose is it when he hides in the back room?
If I was late or absent from "the" class you can bet all your money they'd say to me..."Why were you late/absent for YOUR class."
You don't know anything about my "inadequacies," I will say I'm not perfect. Are you? 
What I've done was to try and get on the same page with my co-teacher, he has responsibilites too. We are suppose to work together, he chose not to do that very well, that and his corporal punishment was the issue. What are my supposed "inadequacies?"
I'm pretty confident with myself and my teaching abilities. Please entertain me with your advice on how I can improve on my "inadequacies?" Or don't you know how to do anything other than attempt to find faults, I'm being followed by the Moonshadow, Moonshadow, Moonshadow!!!
If I had allowed him to hide-out in the back room or didn't say anything then he would've continued. When he went from the classroom to the back room 3 or 4 times during class the student's mood changed. They were completely aware of him and still are when he sleeps in the back of the class, "the man with the stick."
The old man is part of the old guard who doesn't know Englishee well, I see nothing wrong with referring to him as such on this forum. I call my father old man too, so what about it?
Recently, things have improved so I guess I must've done something right.
You are NOT a teacher, ONLY a hagwon owner. Why the heck do you care about my teaching?
Since you nitpick I will too...
T-J wrote..."I'm quite sure that someone of your limited capacity doesn't even realizes how inappropriate this is, so by all means continue."
You should say realize NOT "realizes," DUH!
T-J wrote..."please remember that it is you that lack the ability to control the behavior of children."
You should say lacks NOT "lack," DUH!
Before you use the phrase "Ignorance is bliss" you should think about your own level of ignorance!
Please stick to the topic of this thread and explain what you know about co-teaching or tell us about your co-teaching experience? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
