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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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 Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:13 am Post subject: |
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(in no particular order)
* Wiki is an "anti-Islamic" site? That's a laugh. What's even funnier is that you responded with links to iheartislam.com and muslimshavestrongpimphands.org
* Obviously, you only read my excerpt, or you would know that it doesn't cite any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, as you put it, but scholarly experts on the Qu'ran.
* How do you respond to the fact that the Qu'ran describes the sun as a ball of red-hot metal that rises, goes across the sky, and then sinks into a lake at the end of the day? (I know it's in there; I can't be bothered to look for where, exactly, just now.) |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Well technically Hydrogen is a metal under extreme pressures.
I don't think this is what the Koran had in mind though.
CyberGuy: Please state what you think would be a neutral source on Islam. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| OneWayTraffic wrote: |
CyberGuy: Please state what you think would be a neutral source on Islam. |
That will depend on his audience.
If he is talking to kafir, the most "peaceful" and liberal source will be used. But behind mosque doors, it will be the most conservative and extreme. Some of us have figured this out, and others are naive beyond description and will suck in any platitude that makes us feel good. |
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CyberGuy
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Location: Daejeon, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
(in no particular order)
* Wiki is an "anti-Islamic" site? That's a laugh. What's even funnier is that you responded with links to iheartislam.com and muslimshavestrongpimphands.org
* Obviously, you only read my excerpt, or you would know that it doesn't cite any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, as you put it, but scholarly experts on the Qu'ran.
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Oh yeah, I get you. Any scumbag can make a login account on wiki.answer.com and click on "Imporve Answer".
And as I mentioned, since there are manifold organized haters outside as compared to very few Muslim, you simply cant expect fairness on "public toilette" websites. So, that automatically makes them anti-islamic when there is hardly any Muslim to defend or make correction. Same applies to Wikipedia where you hardly find one Muslim editor among hundreds of nonmuslim editors and there had been many incidents where haters were found ganging with each other to destroy the image of Islam, and there were open evidences provided about that in wikipedia talk pages.
Furthermore, the people who are being quoted in that wiki.answers.com article, all of them are full of crap since they are only quoted on anti-Islam websites. For example:"Gerard Puin" is being quoted there. Just Google this name which couple of dozen sites he is listed on?
Come on, list them for me, or else you are full of crap too. Cuz if you cant defend or even understand yourself what you brought in then you better not bother to reply my post.
I am waiting for you to list the sites even giving a damn about the guy named "Gerard Puin"
Citing people like these is like I assert that there is a guy name "Tom", "Dick" or "Harry" who says earth is cubic. And then I, being Troll_Bait, start copy pasting all over the forums about what "Tom" etc. said.
On the other hand, there are actually popular intellectual-looking bigots like these too:
http://www.smearcasting.com/
Click on each of'em and you'll know it. FYI, this site is not owned by Muslims. So you better punch your own face for that.
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
* How do you respond to the fact that the Qu'ran describes the sun as a ball of red-hot metal that rises, goes across the sky, and then sinks into a lake at the end of the day? (I know it's in there; I can't be bothered to look for where, exactly, just now.) |
(Qur'an 21:33) It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Each of them is floating in its orbit.
In Arabic, the use of the words kullun (alI) and yasbahun (float) in the plural (for more than two) indicates that not only the sun and the moon but all the heavenly bodies are floating in their own separate orbits and none of them is fixed or stationary. These verses (30-33) are capable of being interpreted in the modern scientific terms in accordance with the present day conceptions of Physics, Biology and Astronomy.
In other word for the retards:
If you tell me Muslims or Qur'an said something, then you need to give reference to an Islamic webisite OR at least give me reference to a credible websites having material of general scholarship and not some extremist website solely created to bash religion, and NOT public toilette websites either.
Otherwise, you are associating something which even Qur'an does not have, or Muslims do not believe; and hence you are doing nothing but slandering for the sake of proving your point.
CG |
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CyberGuy
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Location: Daejeon, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| OneWayTraffic wrote: |
Well technically Hydrogen is a metal under extreme pressures.
I don't think this is what the Koran had in mind though.
CyberGuy: Please state what you think would be a neutral source on Islam. |
I don't know what what is is talking about sun being metal. Again, all I'll have to do is copy his text and Google and.... Tarraaaa !!! bunch of crappy sites and not even a single websites actually mentioning the thing in exact manner.
I thought fair.org was comparatively fair enough to talk about fairness in journalism while reporting (which includes reporting about Muslims too). Need not mention this site is not owned by Muslims.
Similarly, you could visit www.ifamericansknew.com to know how "terrorists" are Muslims actually.
To read about some replies to the accusations about Islam, you better visit: http://islam.thetruecall.com/ before bringing the stuff by copy pasting from the accusing sites.
To learn some basics about Islam before judging it:
http://www.islambasics.com/
To study translation with commentary over Quran:
http://www.tafheem.net/
(there are a number of commentaries available http://islamicstudies.info/maarif/ is a good one too)
If you think Qur'an is same fairy tales like Bible, then better watch:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5846830623419914840
Further I referred www.cyberistan.org which is not a very big website but it was awarded by Encyclopedia Britannica for the fairness and accuracy of its content and research.
CG. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| CG, I noticed that you typically haven't responded to the more pointed questions that have been posed to you on this thread. Why is that? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| CyberGuy wrote: |
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
(in no particular order)
* Wiki is an "anti-Islamic" site? That's a laugh. What's even funnier is that you responded with links to iheartislam.com and muslimshavestrongpimphands.org
* Obviously, you only read my excerpt, or you would know that it doesn't cite any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, as you put it, but scholarly experts on the Qu'ran.
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Oh yeah, I get you. Any scumbag can make a login account on wiki.answer.com and click on "Imporve Answer".
And as I mentioned, since there are manifold organized haters outside as compared to very few Muslim, you simply cant expect fairness on "public toilette" websites. |
It's interesting how many Christians say exactly the same thing. Oh well, both religions need something to fuel their persecution complexes, so you shouldn't complain too much.
For the record, though, you sholdn't feel too badly about coming from a religion that may have been founded by a paedophile. When King David - a seminal figure in Christian mythology whom Christian fundamentalists believe wrote the largest book of the Bible - was getting too old and frail, they brought him a young virgin to try to rouse him up. It doesn't mention exactly how old she was, but young virgin in that context would likely mean a teenager and he was a frail old fart at the time. So Christian and Jewish fundamentalists can't really do that much finger-pointing at you.
Then again, come to think of it, fundies from all three religions believe that mankind progenerated from God-willing incest, so the argument over who's basing the beliefs upon which they live their lives on the teachings of pervs is a bit academic. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| CyberGuy wrote: |
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
(in no particular order)
* Wiki is an "anti-Islamic" site? That's a laugh. What's even funnier is that you responded with links to iheartislam.com and muslimshavestrongpimphands.org
* Obviously, you only read my excerpt, or you would know that it doesn't cite any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, as you put it, but scholarly experts on the Qu'ran.
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Oh yeah, I get you. Any scumbag can make a login account on wiki.answer.com and click on "Imporve Answer".
And as I mentioned, since there are manifold organized haters outside as compared to very few Muslim, you simply cant expect fairness on "public toilette" websites. |
It's interesting how many Christians say exactly the same thing. Oh well, both religions need something to fuel their persecution complexes, so you shouldn't complain too much.
When King David - a seminal figure in Christian mythology whom Christian fundamentalists believe wrote the largest book of the Bible - was getting too old and frail, they brought him a young virgin to try to rouse him up. It doesn't mention exactly how old she was, but young virgin in that context would likely mean a teenager and he was a frail old fart at the time. So Christian and Jewish fundamentalists can't really do that much finger-pointing at you. |
King David is not regarded by Christians as the perfect man whose behaviour is to be emulated. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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in today's paper...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/03/18/asia/AS-Indonesia-Child-Bride.php
| Quote: |
A Muslim cleric whose marriage to a 12-year-old girl triggered controversy in Indonesia has been detained along with the girl's father on suspicion of violating the child protection law, police said Wednesday.
Cleric Pujiono Cahyo Widianto, 43, wed the girl before thousands of people in Central Java province last August, arguing that he had committed no crime because he intended to wait until she reached puberty before consummating their relationship. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:01 am Post subject: |
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The Qu'ran says that the moon and night "chase" the sun and day across the sky. In other words, the sun revolves around the earth in the same way that the moon does.
It also states that snakes can hear. They can't, though they can feel vibrations.
Report Card for the Qu'ran:
Astronomy: F
Biology: F |
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CyberGuy
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Location: Daejeon, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
The Qu'ran says that the moon and night "chase" the sun and day across the sky. In other words, the sun revolves around the earth in the same way that the moon does.
It also states that snakes can hear. They can't, though they can feel vibrations.
Report Card for the Qu'ran:
Astronomy: F
Biology: F |
Would you please provide proper text with references than babbling around? |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Then again, come to think of it, fundies from all three religions believe that mankind progenerated from God-willing incest, so the argument over who's basing the beliefs upon which they live their lives on the teachings of pervs is a bit academic. |
Exactly, which is why I have been trying to ascertain (on another thread) why some people are obsessed by perversions, unless it was being done to show that all religions have roots in sexual perversion (which is NOT what was being done in the discussion). |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Cyberguy.
I was glancing at an online Qu'ran (actually looking for that reference to snakes that could hear -- I couldn't find it) and I noticed this:
| Qu'ran wrote: |
[4.92] And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a convenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
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This verse seems to condone slavery, since how can you free a believing slave if believers should not have slaves in the first place? Slaves are mentioned a few other times in passing:
| Qu'ran wrote: |
[2.178] O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.
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| Qu'ran wrote: |
[24.32] And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
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With all of this casual talk of slaves, I am having a hard time finding any passages prohibiting slavery. It seems to me that there is a clear acceptance of slavery in the Qu'ran, and if the Qu'ran is the timeless Word of God, it seems like Islam should as a result endorse slavery even up to the present. Could you talk about this some perhaps? I'd like to hear a Muslim's thoughts on this. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Cyberguy.
I was glancing at an online Qu'ran (actually looking for that reference to snakes that could hear -- I couldn't find it) and I noticed this:
| Qu'ran wrote: |
[4.92] And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a convenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
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This verse seems to condone slavery, since how can you free a believing slave if believers should not have slaves in the first place? Slaves are mentioned a few other times in passing:
| Qu'ran wrote: |
[2.178] O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.
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| Qu'ran wrote: |
[24.32] And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
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With all of this casual talk of slaves, I am having a hard time finding any passages prohibiting slavery. It seems to me that there is a clear acceptance of slavery in the Qu'ran, and if the Qu'ran is the timeless Word of God, it seems like Islam should as a result endorse slavery even up to the present. Could you talk about this some perhaps? I'd like to hear a Muslim's thoughts on this. |
Wow - that sounds sooooo different from the Bible  . It sure makes the Quran look like a special, unique, timeless, relevant, and appealing text, doesn't it? |
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