Korean Job Discussion Forums

[D.D.]

Sometimes silence is the best answer. So here is my answer to captain trying to look at the messenger instead of the messages.
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[Rteacher]

Spiritual sound trumps material silence.

If Bhagavad-gita is correct and we are always individuals, we may continue to see things differently even in the spiritual world.

But in the final analysis, we are all different parts of the same Absolute Person.

A human being is capable of understanding that. A dog can not.
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Inquire_about_the_Soul.html

[Captain Corea]

[D.D.]

Could anger and stress be part of your problem? Possibly the need to be correct? Or fixed opinions that must be protected? Looks like you are more concerned with winning an argument than learning about health.

To do that you are trying to corner the argument into a narrow range because you don't have enough knowledge on the subject.

You know this. How does it serve you in any capacity to win an argument.

Part of our brain that actualy is most of the problem as it filters out emotions is the part of the brain that likes to win arguments.

What do you gain by winning a debate and staying stuck where you are at?

I guess you get a sense of security in creating certainty in an ever changing world.

Let's drop this banter and get back on the subject of how to be more healthy.

[cdninkorea]

I didn't expect an innocent thread like this to spark so much controversy...

[Omkara]

RTeacher, did it ever occur to you that something can be through-and-through material AND be through-and-through spirit?

To divide the universe in half and deny one or the other is either a material or a spiritual mistake, depending on which you deny; from this dichotomy, neither the spiritual or the material is true.

The "materialist" argument for back pain is a kind of model based on corpuscles and hinges, levers and pivots. Everything proceeds from necessary and particular causes.

Conceived thus, organic material appears to the mind but as object, cannot be shown as to why organic material desires in general, but can only be shown as to why it may desire particular, material things.

But at the center of our nature is a universal longing, which cannot be explained by causal explanation. What causes life to long? To strive? To will to live? There is no causal, material explanation.

The "spiritualist" side can have no causal explanation at all, since causality is an integral feature of material.

But the integral feature the spiritual--in the non-superstitious sense of the word--is a kind of longing.

This longing, properly understood, when fundamentally frustrated, leads to suffering. At the level of suffering, which is material, cause can be unfolded.

Denial of matter as inferior is a mistake. One cannot properly separate matter from spirit any more than one can separate form from, say, a hand.

[Omkara]

[D.D.]

Man biggest trip is to try and escape his experience.

Some use drugs, others use work, some try to deny the physical, sme do too much exercise.

The Hare Krishna's tend to try to escape life by separating it into parts ad denying certain aspects.

Good post Omkara but you will have a very difficult time reaching a Hare krishna devotee. I worked with 100's of them and only reached 3 of them that I remember.

Their teachings are quite good for people too caught up in the physical world as were the people they tended to reach in the west.

I know some people it the Hare's that are past the basic teachings and understand what you on about Omkara. Most of the people in their group become cut off from the material life and try to be too spiritual.

I have lived with them off and on through my travels and they are a nice bunch of people but for sure they are trying to deny the physical aspects of life.

Direct experience is just looking at a flower. Then the mind comes in and names the flower. Then other parts of the brain make stories up about the flower and start telling other people. Soon others gather and a religion forms about flowers.

It's like people who write a thesis about chocolate without ever tasting chocolate.

[Captain Corea]

[Forward Observer]

D.D.

Diagnose this: (For a friend on facebook that is having a lot of problems)

AND DON'T SUGAR COAT IT!

[D.D.]

Before we get into any more arguments I am not offering any specific diagnosis here.

We are talking about back pain in general.

So we are looking at lifestyle changes and getting an understanding of how our bodies work.

First question is where is your friend? If he is in the west I can refer him to somebody.

I don't know any practitioners in Korea so cannot make accurate referals. The chiropractor at New york chiropractic in Itaewon does sound like he knows his stuff and has proper western training.


I have talked a lot about spinal cord tension and it is one of the causes of sciatica. There is also a muscle in the but called the piroformis that can put pressure on the sciatic nerve.


For your friend to have such a major reaction something nasty might be happening. What did the docs have to say about it?

Big questions are where is your friend located and what has he been doing that his body would have such an reaction?

What did his x-rays show?

[Rteacher]

Materially, all things must pass. Essential reality is spirit - the soul is much more important than the body. Even the best medical treatment can only provide temporary relief, and by one's previous actions one is destined to suffer or enjoy one-way-or-the other.

Aside from that key philosophical point, I've probably had the worst history of back problems of anyone on this thread.

When I first got a "slipped" or "herniated" (and/or "bulging") disk (circa 1978) I went to a chiropractor right away - while it was very acute - and I think he aggravated the condition as I was basically flat on my back and unable to move much at all for about ten days.

I had a very bad relapse some months later (while trying to cook vegetarian meals for hundreds of students daily on the Univ. of Florida campus) and was more-or-less flat on my back for about seven months. It took me at least fifteen minutes to gradually get up, and I usually couldn't stay on my feet longer than ten minutes before I had to lay back down again.

For about six months I regularly saw a nearby chiropractor (Dr. Friendly in Gainseville) three days a week, and it didn't seem to help at all (but it was all I could afford).

One day a homeopathic doctor from Kenya visited the preaching center I was staying at and suggested that I take some tiny pills that he prepared, stressing that I must have faith in God (he was a Hindu) and faith in the medicine.

I still had faith in God, but I was pretty skeptical how some tiny pellets of mineral salts or whatever could help my herniated disk(s) and scoliosis. Anyway, I suspended disbelief the best I could and - and lo and behold - I experienced dramatic improvement in a couple days.

In retrospect, I think that my debilitated condition was prolonged by the prevailing medical opinion at that time that it was better to lay flat on the floor than to force oneself to walk (through the pain).

I've had periodic relapses that were really severe - one moment I'd be fine and then I'd be jolted by like a lightning bolt as my inflamed disk touched a nerve. One time it hit me while I was brushing my teeth, and I couldn't even shut the water that kept running while I was basically paralyzed a couple feet away (for maybe ten minutes...)

The more that I've forced myself to walk - especially up and down hills - the less severe my back spasms and cramping have become, and I've never missed any days of work because of it (though sometimes I'd be way out of alignment and leaning over to one side...)

I tried various chiropractors, and I think only one was effective most of the time (some real old guy in Miami Beach)

For a while I thought that a guy who claimed to be one of the only practitioners of a certain type of applied kinesiology provided the best treatment, but a friend of mine who also tried him didn't agree.

For me, I think it's best just to tough it out and tolerate it as much as possible (and try to use a jacuzzi at least every couple weeks ...)

It helps to understand that my real identity extends beyond the physical body, and that - materially - all things must pass ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm_N3bjqlr4&feature=related

[Captain Corea]

[Omkara]

Indeed, RTeacher, all things must pass. Keeping this in mind during an episode of extreme pain is useful.

Walking, I agree, is better than just lying flat on the floor.

But I would recommend using the yoga technique of lying on the floor regularly to relax deeply, which is called savasanna.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmmI6MHiGac

Doing this daily, perhaps first thing every morning, for ten minutes, can be very helpful.

[Rteacher]

Hey, I used to sleep on the floor practically every day for over 12 years when I was a full-time devotee.

Nobody living in a temple slept on a bed, and we'd all get up before 4am, dance and chant like crazy before the Deities, do individual mantra meditation on beads for a couple hours and hear transcendental literature for another hour before doing some sort of work all day to spread Krishna consciousness. Most of us would be exhausted and ready to take rest (by 10 pm) on a thin mat on the floor.

In a previous age, mystic yoga was the recommended means of self-realization, and the perfectional stage was seeing the four-armed form of Supersoul within one's own heart. (The last snare of maya is to misidentify oneself as being the Supersoul - which some yogis did ).

The only yoga recommended for self-realization in this age is bhakti yoga - the yoga of love and devotion for the Supreme Person and the science of Krishna consciousness.

Particular yoga exercises and postures may be helpful for promoting physical fitness, but with the added bs that often comes with it one might be better off doing some other fitness techniques without any spiritual pretense.

Of course, many bogi yogis throw in some Hare Krishna chanting along with exercises, but if they're not purely connected to the devotional line of realized souls stemming from Lord Chaitanya (Golden Avatar of Krishna who spread the chanting of Holy Names all over India about 520 years ago) the chanting has no spiritual potency.

Instead of gradually realizing that they are not their bodies, modern yoga practitioners tend to get more into their own bodies and the material bodily conception of life.