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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: For you advanced Korean speakers... |
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I'm editing a teacher's guide that was outsourced to some graduate students. One thing that's really frustrating me is the "patronizing" tone of the content.
Unedited ex:
"Don't you think a clown is an unusual person?"
I also encounter the same tone with older Korean speakers...that usage of "Don't" or "Can" as opposed to "Do" or "Will".
So my question is: Does actual Korean make no distinction between don't/do and can/will?
I'm just interested because Don't and Can are very loaded words and a lot of Koreans don't seem to know the difference. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Questions in Korean are often formed in the negative (ending in 지). I don't think they intend to be patronizing, they're just translating instead of transliterating. |
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Chet Wautlands
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. I always have to remind myself of this when I get feedback on new lesson plans. This is generally seen a lot in Koreans who have studied a lot of English but haven't spent a long time living abroad.
I'm guilty of phrasing my French the same way I would my English. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:53 am Post subject: Re: For you advanced Korean speakers... |
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| jdog2050 wrote: |
One thing that's really frustrating me is the "patronizing" tone of the content.
Unedited ex:
"Don't you think a clown is an unusual person?"
I also encounter the same tone with older Korean speakers...that usage of "Don't" or "Can" as opposed to "Do" or "Will".
So my question is: Does actual Korean make no distinction between don't/do and can/will?
I'm just interested because Don't and Can are very loaded words and a lot of Koreans don't seem to know the difference.
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This is a great example of why some phrase and situational memorization / practice is essential. This is true while learning Korean too. I have run into many situations, where the translation is correct the grammar is correct, but it is just the wrong thing to say and comes off sounding very rude given the situation.
Wouldn't you agree that....
vs.
Don't you think that...
Is much softer and more polite.
However, "Don't you feel cold?" is just fine in the appropriate situation.
The answer to your question is that they do distinguish, the problem is that the negative question in Korean is generally speaking more polite in more situations than in English. |
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NightSky
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: |
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just answer the question with a question, like:
don't you wish your girlfriend was a freak like me? |
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Jammer113
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Does actual Korean make no distinction between don't/do and can/will? |
Korean doesn't do modals quite like we do. They also don't use "do support". It accomplishes everything English accomplishes, but you'll never find a straight up translation for any particular word, especially in regards to modals.
Also, English uses modals for a lot of different purposes, which aren't necessarily evident from the literal translation. Understanding all of these nuances is the reason they have you!
Still, I think part of the problem is likely Korean academic style which is very teacher-centered. That is pure speculation on my part, however, as I haven't actually attended any Korean schools or read Korean textbooks. |
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Jammer113
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a passage from my (children's) hanja text book.
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판다는 화초를 소중히 키웠어요. 빛이 잘 들어오는 창가에 놓고,
물도 듬뿍 주었지요. |
You could translate this as:
Panda grew his flowers very carefully. He placed them on a windowsill with a lot of light, and you can be sure that he gave them plenty of water.
You could also translate it as:
Panda grew his flowering plant preciously. He put it on a place by the window where light came through well, and didn't he also give it water so that it was filled to the brim?
The first is how I would say the passage in English in order to give the same tone and feeling. The second is a dictionary translation based on Naver.
I think "지" attached to a verb is used a lot in Korean lectures and stories to try and bring the group to a consensus on a topic or towards having the same thought on any particular issue. So "don't you think" and "don't you know that" would be rather common. That's just guessing on my part.
All of this is a huge issue with any attemt to translate something from one language to another. How much do you keep to the original wording, and how much do you change vocabulary in order to try and transfer the original tone and message into a new language and culture? |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Jammer113 wrote: |
Here is a passage from my (children's) hanja text book.
| Quote: |
판다는 화초를 소중히 키웠어요. 빛이 잘 들어오는 창가에 놓고,
물도 듬뿍 주었지요. |
You could translate this as:
Panda grew his flowers very carefully. He placed them on a windowsill with a lot of light, and you can be sure that he gave them plenty of water.
You could also translate it as:
Panda grew his flowering plant preciously. He put it on a place by the window where light came through well, and didn't he also give it water so that it was filled to the brim?
The first is how I would say the passage in English in order to give the same tone and feeling. The second is a dictionary translation based on Naver.
I think "지" attached to a verb is used a lot in Korean lectures and stories to try and bring the group to a consensus on a topic or towards having the same thought on any particular issue. So "don't you think" and "don't you know that" would be rather common. That's just guessing on my part.
All of this is a huge issue with any attemt to translate something from one language to another. How much do you keep to the original wording, and how much do you change vocabulary in order to try and transfer the original tone and message into a new language and culture? |
You pretty much hit it on the head. The translations that I'm editing definitely feel like they're forcing a consensus on a subject (i.e., vaguely patronizing).
It's pissing me off though because I'm editing a reading series and there's supposed to be a lot of critical thinking.
Hurrr durrr. This is mostly my boss' fault. Rather not get into it but great explanations guys, thanks. |
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