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BritishinSuwon
Joined: 17 May 2008
Location: No longer in Suwon! Now kicking it in Shanghai
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 Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: Advice needed please |
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Hey all,
I was wondering if someone here might be able to help me with an issue with my school.
The story;
This past Friday, my boss approached me and told me that "she thinks we have worked too long together" and she wanted for me to leave her school by the end of May/beginning of June. I've worked there over two years, and have never had a problem with her.
As it stands now, my present contract is due to expire on August 17th.
When I told her that it was unacceptable for her to terminate me solely because she thought we worked together too long, she dismissed me by saying I don't need to worry because she was going to "send your visa to another school", in a different city, that her cousin runs.
I see this for what it is, which is her trying to get out of paying my severance and apartment deposit.
My questions are these;
1). She's letting me go at the end of May (beginning of June), which is what is stated in our contract (60 days notice). I know I don't have a leg to stand on with the time frame, but is there anything that can be contested as far as her reasoning goes? Meaning, is her excuse a valid reason to dismiss me?
2). I'm not entirely sure of what happens with my severance pay at this point. If I leave in May (or June), it's not the full one year contract that we agreed to, so would she still be on the hook for the severance? My contract only states that "upon completion of this agreement, Employee with be entitled to one [1] month of severance pay for every year of employment." I'm thinking that because it doesn't state anything about early dismissal, I am screwed on this point.
3). Legally, can she "send" my visa to another school? Is this akin to what people mean when they refer to being "released" from their visa? The reason I'm asking is because she is talking about "sending" my visa to a specific school and not just allowing me to chose my own employment.
4). When I spoke to her about the visa situation, and all of the running around I would need to do for this (transcripts, degree, health check, police clearance and the apostle ), she told me that a). because I came here in 2006 (before the new rules were implemented) and b). because she is "sending" my visa to another school, the only thing I would need is a Korean police check. Does anyone with any knowledge of the new visa regulations know if this is true?
I would appreciate any advice anyone can throw my way on this. I'm not sure what I should do next here.
Cheers |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Advice needed please |
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| BritishinSuwon wrote: |
1) Meaning, is her excuse a valid reason to dismiss me?
2) If I leave in May (or June), it's not the full one year contract that we agreed to, so would she still be on the hook for the severance?
3) Legally, can she "send" my visa to another school?
4) Does anyone with any knowledge of the new visa regulations know if this is true? |
1) No. File a complaint with Labor. Yes, she can give you your 60-day notice as specified in your contract, but she has to have a valid reason for firing you. And make no mistake about it, that's exactly what this is.
2) She does not owe you severance if you leave early.
3) No. She can release you from your current contract, and you are free to find another school of your own choosing, but she cannot dictate where you go or where you may transfer your visa. In other words, if you don't want to go to her friend's school, you can tell to get bent (of course, if you choose to go, you may, but you will be under a new contract just as with any other change of job)
4) Given the other 3 answers above, you can put your faith in the fact that she is trying to screw you at every turn. Call Immigration directly and ask for your answers directly. Call them at 1345. |
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BritishinSuwon
Joined: 17 May 2008
Location: No longer in Suwon! Now kicking it in Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Advice needed please |
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Thanks for the helpful advice. I've contacted labor and we'll see where it goes from there.
Much appreciated FRANK.
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| BritishinSuwon wrote: |
1) Meaning, is her excuse a valid reason to dismiss me?
2) If I leave in May (or June), it's not the full one year contract that we agreed to, so would she still be on the hook for the severance?
3) Legally, can she "send" my visa to another school?
4) Does anyone with any knowledge of the new visa regulations know if this is true? |
1) No. File a complaint with Labor. Yes, she can give you your 60-day notice as specified in your contract, but she has to have a valid reason for firing you. And make no mistake about it, that's exactly what this is.
2) She does not owe you severance if you leave early.
3) No. She can release you from your current contract, and you are free to find another school of your own choosing, but she cannot dictate where you go or where you may transfer your visa. In other words, if you don't want to go to her friend's school, you can tell to get bent (of course, if you choose to go, you may, but you will be under a new contract just as with any other change of job)
4) Given the other 3 answers above, you can put your faith in the fact that she is trying to screw you at every turn. Call Immigration directly and ask for your answers directly. Call them at 1345. |
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Jammer113
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| If you came here 3 years ago, when you renew your visa, you must meet all of the new requirements. If you never had a criminal background check from your home country, you need one now. But you should have needed one last year when you renewed, already. |
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plynx
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Advice needed please |
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| BritishinSuwon wrote: |
2). I'm not entirely sure of what happens with my severance pay at this point. If I leave in May (or June), it's not the full one year contract that we agreed to, so would she still be on the hook for the severance? My contract only states that "upon completion of this agreement, Employee with be entitled to one [1] month of severance pay for every year of employment." I'm thinking that because it doesn't state anything about early dismissal, I am screwed on this point.
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from what i learned last year, you ARE entitled to severance pay by law if you re-signed with the same employer. if you are on a contract with the same school for more than a year, then you get your severance pay minus the few months that are left uncompleted when you leave (so you would receive 10 months worth of your severance pay). one of my co-workers is the one who pointed this out and, using the labor act as back-up, got her money before she opted out of her contract 6 months early for personal reasons. i'm not sure if you're being "fired" in this situation, or what that would do to affect the law; hopefully someone more knowledgeable can pipe in. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Advice needed please |
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| plynx wrote: |
| from what i learned last year, you ARE entitled to severance pay by law if you re-signed with the same employer. if you are on a contract with the same school for more than a year, then you get your severance pay minus the few months that are left uncompleted when you leave (so you would receive 10 months worth of your severance pay). |
No, you are not legally entitled to it if you do not complete the year. This applies to schools that pay severance year-to-year. Certainly, a school can CHOOSE to pay partial severance, but they are not obligated by labor law to do so. (eg. if you work 30 months, but receive severance payment after 12 months and again after 24 months, you do NOT get partial severance after the final 6 months)
However, if a school does not pay severance year-to-year and instead pays severance only once--ie. only at the very end of your employment--then yes, you are entitled to partial years. (eg. If you work for 30 months before leaving, but receive no severance at all until the 30th month, then you are entitled to 2.5 months** of severance; 1 for the first year, 1 for the second, and 0.5 for the partial year)
**where a month is calculated to be the average of the final 3 months of gross salary |
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BritishinSuwon
Joined: 17 May 2008
Location: No longer in Suwon! Now kicking it in Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I did need a CBC, which I received last year, but I was under the impression that the CBC's are only valid for 6 months and then a teacher has to submit a new one.
Maybe I'm wrong on that point too. I really don't know.
| Jammer113 wrote: |
| If you came here 3 years ago, when you renew your visa, you must meet all of the new requirements. If you never had a criminal background check from your home country, you need one now. But you should have needed one last year when you renewed, already. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BritishinSuwon wrote: |
I did need a CBC, which I received last year, but I was under the impression that the CBC's are only valid for 6 months and then a teacher has to submit a new one.
Maybe I'm wrong on that point too. I really don't know. |
CBCs are "valid" six months from the day they are issued. ie. once you have your CBC, you have 6 months to submit it for your new work visa. Immigration will not accept a CBC if it is more than 6 months old. They do not require you to submit one every 6 months. |
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plynx
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Advice needed please |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| plynx wrote: |
| from what i learned last year, you ARE entitled to severance pay by law if you re-signed with the same employer. if you are on a contract with the same school for more than a year, then you get your severance pay minus the few months that are left uncompleted when you leave (so you would receive 10 months worth of your severance pay). |
No, you are not legally entitled to it if you do not complete the year. This applies to schools that pay severance year-to-year. Certainly, a school can CHOOSE to pay partial severance, but they are not obligated by labor law to do so. (eg. if you work 30 months, but receive severance payment after 12 months and again after 24 months, you do NOT get partial severance after the final 6 months)
However, if a school does not pay severance year-to-year and instead pays severance only once--ie. only at the very end of your employment--then yes, you are entitled to partial years. (eg. If you work for 30 months before leaving, but receive no severance at all until the 30th month, then you are entitled to 2.5 months** of severance; 1 for the first year, 1 for the second, and 0.5 for the partial year)
**where a month is calculated to be the average of the final 3 months of gross salary |
i'm not contesting you at all - i'd really like to know your sources, though, for future reference. my co-worker was able to get 6 months of severance from my company; she had previously worked for two years - and received payment after 12 months, then the second year contract (24 months), and then the 6 months (for which she broke the contract early). i might be in a similar situation at some point where i re-sign and then leave before the contract ends, so where you got your info would be very useful. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Advice needed please |
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| plynx wrote: |
| i'd really like to know your sources |
The relevant clauses are in the Labor Standards Act. Plus, I have direct experience with 3 labor complaints and 2 lawsuits. All conducted the same way with the same results.
| Quote: |
| my co-worker was able to get 6 months of severance from my company |
Then she was lucky the school VOLUNTARILY gave her the money. If they had refused, the severance laws would not be on her side to force the school to do so. If the school pays severance yearly, then each contract is mutually exclusive as afr as paying severance is concerned; it would be the same as if you worked for a different school for each of your contracts. As a "separate job", you must finish a complete year to receive severance. The first 12 months was completed, so the job is finished and they paid severance. The next job begins from scratch, and after finishing 12 months, they pay severance again. The third job begins from scratch again, but this time the 12 months is not completed, so severance is not obligated.
If the severance is not paid yearly, then the three contracts are not considered to be mutually exclusive "jobs", but extensions of the same job, so when you leave after 30 months, the extra 6 months is calculated into the severance. It's taken as a part of the whole. This is the situation severance is SUPPOSED to be paid: when you SEVER your employment completely with your company. Schools pay yearly because they save a ton of money to do so.
To illustrate how much you would get (and how much schools save by paying yearly), let's calculate for the sake of argument:
Year 1: 2,000,000/mth
Year 2: 2,200,000/mth
Year 3: 2,400,000/mth
Situation 1: the school pays severance yearly, you would receive:
Year 1: 2,000,000 x 1.0 = 2,000,000
Year 2: 2,200,000 x 1.0 = 2,200,000
Year 3: 2,400,000 x 0.0 = 0
Total = 4,200,000 severance for working 30 months
Situation 2: the school does not pay yearly, but only once at the very end of your employment, you would receive:
Year 1: 0
Year 2: 0
Year 3: 2,400,000 x 2.5 = 6,000,000
Total = 6,000,000 severance for working 30 months |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
1). She's letting me go at the end of May (beginning of June), which is what is stated in our contract (60 days notice). I know I don't have a leg to stand on with the time frame, but is there anything that can be contested as far as her reasoning goes? Meaning, is her excuse a valid reason to dismiss me?
2). I'm not entirely sure of what happens with my severance pay at this point. If I leave in May (or June), it's not the full one year contract that we agreed to, so would she still be on the hook for the severance? My contract only states that "upon completion of this agreement, Employee with be entitled to one [1] month of severance pay for every year of employment." I'm thinking that because it doesn't state anything about early dismissal, I am screwed on this point.
3). Legally, can she "send" my visa to another school? Is this akin to what people mean when they refer to being "released" from their visa? The reason I'm asking is because she is talking about "sending" my visa to a specific school and not just allowing me to chose my own employment.
4). When I spoke to her about the visa situation, and all of the running around I would need to do for this (transcripts, degree, health check, police clearance and the apostle ), she told me that a). because I came here in 2006 (before the new rules were implemented) and b). because she is "sending" my visa to another school, the only thing I would need is a Korean police check. Does anyone with any knowledge of the new visa regulations know if this is true?
I would appreciate any advice anyone can throw my way on this. I'm not sure what I should do next here.
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1. No, she does not have a good reason. No doubt the Labor Board told you that. You can stay if you choose to fight it, although the atmosphere may well be sour if you stay.
It sounds to me like she is trying to cover for a family demand, which happens here.
Consider her offer under the following conditions:
2. In your new contract at her cousin's school, you are guaranteed your full severence on the date when it was originally due.
Ask for a raise.
Request (and do not take 'no' for an answer) that one of the two schools takes on ALL the expenses of the move. Make sure, in writing, that you do not lose a dime in any of this.
3. This one seems to mean she would provide a LOR.
4. No idea.
Depending on how you feel about the new location, consider the new job. If the new location isn't a hell-hole and you think you could enjoy it, negotiate like hell to get a sweetheart deal. Otherwise, refuse to leave. She doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Is this a hagwon or public school? If PS, then you can be changed schools on the same visa. Hagwon visa is school school specific and can't be xferred. This is what I understand after reading many months about these sorts of things. It makes me sick to hear they're treating you like this after you gave that much time to them, becuase it indicates you're loyal to this school and your job. What are they thinking? I'm thinking job hopping each year is the way to go, even if a multi year public school teacher. If I come back, it'll be a different town and school instead of resigning for a 2nd year in the same place.
If you didn't get severance pay at the end of years 1 and 2, they owe you lots of severance money as stated above PLUS a flight out. What about pension monies being paid to the NPS? |
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BritishinSuwon
Joined: 17 May 2008
Location: No longer in Suwon! Now kicking it in Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Bit of an update.
I spoke to the labor board and they informed me that my bosses reasoning for dismissing me is not valid. But, like someone else mentioned, I won't pursue this, because I no longer want to work at this school. If she's decided on a whim to release me, then it's not a situation I want to be associated with.
As for my severance pay, after threatening her with going to the labor board (as well as contacting the recruiter that put me in touch with this job initially), she's agreed to pay me the severance. Apparently, she will pay it on the 8th of April (two days before my final day). Whether she does or not, is another story, but I did have her sign an agreement to that, so if she backs out of paying it, I might have something to contest.
Also, the new school that I'll be working at has agreed to pay for the move. So that's one less headache for me to deal with.
Anyways, thanks to all that sent out suggestions and thoughts. I appreciate it and it's nice to be able to ask for some help on here and get serious replies. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BritishinSuwon wrote: |
I did need a CBC, which I received last year, but I was under the impression that the CBC's are only valid for 6 months and then a teacher has to submit a new one.
Maybe I'm wrong on that point too. I really don't know.
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CBC's are valid 6 months but once immigration has a copy they remain valid so long as you don't leave Korea in between contracts. As far as know you won't need to submit a new CBC even if you have to do a visa run. You should have your recruiter phone immigration to make sure this is the case. |
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