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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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 Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Andrea Vandom, POWER UP 
She claims an Immigration official lied, OMG how can that be? I once had an Immigration official negotiate on the behalf of a hagwon owner so I'm not surprised a bit. Immigration officials can be the sleaziest of all sleaze.
Actually it was more like blackmail. He said... "If you drop your complaint against the hagwon I will give you an E-2 Visa." I refused but thought about it, returned the next day and asked the sleaze to document that/put that on paper and then I would drop my complaint. He said..."Oh no, I'm an official, you can trust me."  |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| The tests are to protect the children. |
Except that not everyone on an E2 teaches children. The woman in this article teaches at a university. So do I. If protecting children is the justification, people like us should be exempt.
I can't even remember the last time I even talked to a child. |
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Seoul'n'Corea
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: No need to have a medical check |
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I think people are missing a key fact in that there is no need to have a medical check if you are re-applying for the same school or institute (place of work)
If you choose to leave this institution then you are required to get one.
Gyopos are exempt because they have Korean decent on their side.
The whole E2 rule is totally flawed and needs reworking. Seriously. There are so many holes for Gyopos one could drive a bus through them. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| The tests are to protect the children. |
Except that not everyone on an E2 teaches children. The woman in this article teaches at a university. So do I. If protecting children is the justification, people like us should be exempt.
I can't even remember the last time I even talked to a child. |
And not every foreigner who teaches children is required by the new rules to get the checks. That is, after all, the whole point of ATEK's complaint. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: No need to have a medical check |
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| Seoul'n'Corea wrote: |
| I think people are missing a key fact in that there is no need to have a medical check if you are re-applying for the same school or institute (place of work) |
Care to check your facts first? Medical check and CBC were part of my renewal in the public school system here in Busan.
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| Gyopos are exempt because they have Korean decent on their side. |
And this makes them exempt from having a criminal background or certain diseases...how, exactly?
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| The whole E2 rule is totally flawed and needs reworking. Seriously. There are so many holes for Gyopos one could drive a bus through them. |
One could drive an entire fleet through them. The rules are discriminatory, not in that they target foreign nationals, but that they exempt certain foreign nationals on nothing other than race. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: No need to have a medical check |
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| Seoul'n'Corea wrote: |
I think people are missing a key fact in that there is no need to have a medical check if you are re-applying for the same school or institute (place of work)
If you choose to leave this institution then you are required to get one.
Gyopos are exempt because they have Korean decent on their side.
The whole E2 rule is totally flawed and needs reworking. Seriously. There are so many holes for Gyopos one could drive a bus through them. |
You do need one even if you are renewing. Oh, and, yes, Gyopos can pretty much get away with anything under these "rules." |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| cruisemonkey wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Teachers who have already provided a CRC and health check do not need to provide these again when renewing, and in some cases when changing schools, if they have not left Korea since providing the original documents. |
Where are you getting this from? It's not true!
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This comes from experience. So far, it's been true for all of our renewing and transferring teachers.
In other words:
1. We were told by Immigration that we could do it.
2. We did it.
| cruisemonkey wrote: |
In order to obtain an Extension of Stay for an E-2 visa, one must provide (among other documents):
- Original copy of the Health Examination for Employment (include TBPE test and HIV test).
- Issuance of proof of (lack of) criminal records.*
*Exempt: Native instructors invited by the Ministry of Education. |
Perhaps you've had different experiences with public school renewals, or in different locations, or on different days of the week, as all of those things can cause variations in Immi policy. |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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In order to obtain an Extension of Stay for an E-2 visa, one must provide (among other documents):
- Original copy of the Health Examination for Employment (include TBPE test and HIV test).
- Issuance of proof of (lack of) criminal records.*
*Exempt: Native instructors invited by the Ministry of Education.
The above is official Immi policy. However, in K-land, any Immi office, branch or individual officer can choose to either: apply, or totally disregard, official policy. It seems there was nothing 'out of the ordinary' in Andrea's case.  |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I am having some trouble getting my mind around this. By refusing H.I.V and t.b. testing Ms. Vandom seems to be saying that carrying potentially fatal illnesses into another country is a human right. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| I am having some trouble getting my mind around this. By refusing H.I.V and t.b. testing Ms. Vandom seems to be saying that carrying potentially fatal illnesses into another country is a human right. |
A friend of mine is a diplomat, and he's told me that when ambassadors travel, they have a special pouch that no one is legally allowed to search. It's supposed to contain secret documents they need for work, but in some undeveloped countries like, for example, North Korea, they smuggle all sorts of things that way, like counterfeit US currency and drugs.
They don't have the right to bring counterfeit money or anything else illegal into another country, but they do have the right to not have that pouch searched. I think this is the same: Ms. Vandom isn't claiming the right to carry diseases into another country; she may not have any. She's claiming the right not to be searched. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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So Ms. Vandom is a diplomat? Those diplomatic pouches can and have been searched , the secrecy of those pouches is a courtesy nothing more. Nations and populations have the right to set rules of entry. What about the human rights of Koreans who might be exposed to disease?
How has Ms. Vandoms refusal helped the holders of e-2 visas? Will this make koreans more wary of foreigners than ever? |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:57 am Post subject: |
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No, she clearly isn't a diplomat or ambassador; it was an analogy. And from what I understand, foreign governments aren't allowed to search those pouches. Some do, but they aren't supposed to.
And I think there are unreasonable rules of entry into a country. This:
The Moral and Practical Case for Open Immigration
by Harry Binswanger
http://www.capmag.com/open-immigration/index.htm |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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So if I understand this correctly, these supposed "humanrights" are more important than a job that you are well compensated for, only actually work a few hours a week, recieve free accomadation and lots of vacation time. Got it!
For a person from a rich western society to call getting a couple of medical test in exchange for the above mentioned position a human rights violation, makes a mockery of the term. It mocks those who live in societies where false imprisonment, torture , physical mistreatment is the norm. Ms. Vandom is here by choice and can leave anytime she wants.
So I believe that some foreign teachers are doing their best to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. I t will be easy for the Korean government to resolve these issues. They can move the tests offshore, demand certification for teachers teaching in public schools and Hagwons. Bring in more Indian and fillipino teachers at lower pay.
So the end result of the "human rights" campaign will be fewer teachers from the West. Higher pay for those who can meet the standards. This will clean up the foreign teacher pool, getting rid of those who find leading a kindy class in "the wheels on the bus go round and round" challenging. F visa holders will benefit . Hagwon owners will benefit. The losers the majority of white foreign teachers. |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
No, she clearly isn't a diplomat or ambassador; it was an analogy. And from what I understand, foreign governments aren't allowed to search those pouches. Some do, but they aren't supposed to.
And I think there are unreasonable rules of entry into a country. This:
The Moral and Practical Case for Open Immigration
by Harry Binswanger
http://www.capmag.com/open-immigration/index.htm |
Yes, an analogy is something rollo doesn't seem to understand. |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
So if I understand this correctly, these supposed "humanrights" are more important than a job that you are well compensated for, only actually work a few hours a week, recieve free accomadation and lots of vacation time. Got it!
For a person from a rich western society to call getting a couple of medical test in exchange for the above mentioned position a human rights violation, makes a mockery of the term. It mocks those who live in societies where false imprisonment, torture , physical mistreatment is the norm. Ms. Vandom is here by choice and can leave anytime she wants.
So I believe that some foreign teachers are doing their best to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. I t will be easy for the Korean government to resolve these issues. They can move the tests offshore, demand certification for teachers teaching in public schools and Hagwons. Bring in more Indian and fillipino teachers at lower pay.
So the end result of the "human rights" campaign will be fewer teachers from the West. Higher pay for those who can meet the standards. This will clean up the foreign teacher pool, getting rid of those who find leading a kindy class in "the wheels on the bus go round and round" challenging. F visa holders will benefit . Hagwon owners will benefit. The losers the majority of white foreign teachers. |
"From a rich western society?" I think you need to get with the times. I don't know where exactly Ms. Vandom is from but America is NOT rich, last I knew America was about 10 trillion dollars in debt and soaring. "But there's a bigger problem out there, which is $53 trillion worth of unfunded liabilities."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tentrillion/themes/debt.html
Your thinking that Ms. Vandom and others are "well compensated," is according to you but how do you know? She has "lots of vacation time," again how do you know? Do you think ten vacation days per year is a lot? Many Native English Teachers only get only 10 vacation days per year? You don't know her contract terms do you? Just what the heck do you do here? You seem to be out of touch with conditions here in S. Korea and abroad.
What you don't seem to get or care about is that the rules/regulations are being unfairly set and applied. Since you seem to have accepted that the incident happened how can you side with Immigration and what Kim, Young-keun said, denying that it is true?
I'd like for you to broaden your mind and look at things from the other side for a moment if you are able?
What do you think about Kim Young-keun's comment...
"But the KIS refuted the allegations. Kim Young-keun, a KIS spokesperson, said the immigration office in Suwon had received all of the necessary documents to allow the organization to grant a renewal. ``It is impossible for us to grant a visa in violation of the regulations,'' he said."
Last edited by buymybook on Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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