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by2004
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Location: Gyeongsan
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 Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: University tenure with an MA? |
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| Is it possible to get tenure at a Korean university with only an MA in hand? How many out there? If not, what are the figures like for expats with phds who have tenure at a Korean univ? |
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agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think you can get a tenure track for having a M.A. unless you're one of those few who write articles regularly and are eligible for the special citizen status the government has recently been talking about. You'd have to prove yourself imminently valuable to get tenure.
What of the claim that universities kick out university teachers after three or four years so they can't get tenure? I think it's been debunked, though, as university teachers can simply sign up yearly contracts with a stipulation they're almost permanent ad-hocs.
Anyone know about this? What of the claim that universities sometimes kick out teachers at the limit situation whereupon if they stay and teach longer, they get the incredibly lucrative university pension system or something?
I hope these questions can be answered. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Have you looked at the immigration website concerning the visa (E-1) regulation for foreign professors? If you look under the first E-1 visa section (that is, The Object of Visa Issuance), you might find a limitation for foreigners receiving tenure in Korea.
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| * In the case of a national or a public University, a foreigner is not permitted to be a full-time professor. |
Source: Visa Issuance procedure, E-1 Status (Professors), Korea Immigration Service, MOJ
Link: http://www.moj.go.kr/HP/ENG/eng_03/eng_306030.jsp
Perhaps, the above regulation is not enforced because some foreigners do seem to be permitted to be full-time and apply for tenure or tenure track positions.
Foreign Tenure Professor Quits SNU Without Notice
By Kang Shin-who, Korea Times (October 13, 2008)
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/10/117_32610.html
You might find the following article interesting.
Just Treat Us Like Equals: Foreign Professors
Translated article at The Marmot's Hole by Robert Koehler, posted on September 19, 2007
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/19/just-treat-us-like-equals-foreign-professors
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Ferguson, with a Ph.D in linguistics from a US university, had been teaching at the university for eight years, and was an associate professor in the English literature department, but he complained of "unfair conditions" because his hair and skin color was different. He noted that even Korean professors who came after him received personal offices, but foreign professors needed to share a communal office, which the reporter said was more akin to a "reading room" where students study. Some 20 professors shared the space, and desks lacked computers and telephones....
The foreign professors complained that they are treated like hagwon teachers....
Foreign professors are also being discriminated against in terms of hours and wages. Prof. Gabriel (fake name), who teaches at a certain university, said Korean professors teach an average of seven hours a week, while the foreign professors teach at least 12 hours.....
... there was even one foreign professor who was earning only 2.2 million won a month teaching 20 hours a week. The professor eventually returned to the United States out of dissatisfaction with his pay.
Then, of course, there's the issue of job security. Foreign professors sign contracts of 2-4 years. Yet they are often disadvantaged by the terms and/or timing of their contracts. Prof. Josephine (fake name), who teaches French literature, said there are many cases where schools sign their professors just three days before the start of the semester. If you can�t sign a deal by then, you have to leave Korea immediately. She said it would be nice if schools decided on their contracts at least one month in advance, and that she couldn't even think about job security. Another professor said the contracts were simple, one-page documents with only the duration of employment, salary and date. Far from honoring the professor, he said, the contracts felt more like slave papers.... |
The original Korean article:
"우리는 교수 아닌 투명인간인가"
국내 대학 외국인 교수들, 연구실도 없고 회의에 참석 못해... 고용 보장 '아득'
노진섭 기자, 시사저널 (2007년 09월 03일)
http://www.sisapress.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=44134 |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Lol
If a University puts an MA on tenure track, it must be a joke of a University |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
Lol
If a University puts an MA on tenure track, it must be a joke of a University |
now I take offense to that. How would you respond to the following situation:
You have someone with a Ph.D. but they don't publish and they don't present. Shoot, they don't do much at all but teach freshmen English.
On the other hand, you have someone with an M.S. and said person publishes in journals including top-tier journals in their field, writes books, presents at the most prestiguous and most difficult conference to get into, and trains teachers all over the country.
You are telling me that the latter isn't better than the former?   That the person with the M.S. shouldn't get tenure over someone with the Ph.D.? |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Real Reality wrote: |
Have you looked at the immigration website concerning the visa (E-1) regulation for foreign professors? If you look under the first E-1 visa section (that is, The Object of Visa Issuance), you might find a limitation for foreigners receiving tenure in Korea.
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| * In the case of a national or a public University, a foreigner is not permitted to be a full-time professor. |
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Does not apply to private universities.
| Juregen wrote: |
| If a University puts an MA on tenure track, it must be a joke of a University |
Not if he's currently doing his Ph.D., and keeping up with his publishing in the mean time. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
Lol
If a University puts an MA on tenure track, it must be a joke of a University |
now I take offense to that. How would you respond to the following situation:
You have someone with a Ph.D. but they don't publish and they don't present. Shoot, they don't do much at all but teach freshmen English.
On the other hand, you have someone with an M.S. and said person publishes in journals including top-tier journals in their field, writes books, presents at the most prestiguous and most difficult conference to get into, and trains teachers all over the country.
You are telling me that the latter isn't better than the former? That the person with the M.S. shouldn't get tenure over someone with the Ph.D.? |
And I agree with you, in that particular situation.
If an MA does have the capability of doing extensive research and actually publishes these papers in renowned publication, he earns his PhD with his First publication.
How many PhD's don't even get published....
But real life is different... |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| If an MA does have the capability of doing extensive research and actually publishes these papers in renowned publication, he earns his PhD with his First publication.... |
I wish that were the case with me. But, I still have to jump through hoops if I want my PhD.
| Juregen wrote: |
| How many PhD's don't even get published. |
See, now that I find interesting. I know of those with PhDs that don't really publish all that much. Some just present all over the world. I guess that's what the university wants from them. I also know of some that don't present, but do publish. I guess it all boils down to what the uni that is hiring wants. I also know, as previously mentioned, of those with PhDs that don't do anything except for teach entry-level freshmen English classes. THAT, I don't understand. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| If an MA does have the capability of doing extensive research and actually publishes these papers in renowned publication, he earns his PhD with his First publication.... |
I wish that were the case with me. But, I still have to jump through hoops if I want my PhD.
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Have you tried putting your articles in one volume and presenting them to a University as a whole. Then request that you can follow a PhD program with these papers?
Such you will only have to do the coursework.
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| How many PhD's don't even get published. |
See, now that I find interesting. I know of those with PhDs that don't really publish all that much. Some just present all over the world. I guess that's what the university wants from them. I also know of some that don't present, but do publish. I guess it all boils down to what the uni that is hiring wants. I also know, as previously mentioned, of those with PhDs that don't do anything except for teach entry-level freshmen English classes. THAT, I don't understand. |
For anyone who wants to stay in Academics, publishing is required for survival  |
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fishy
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Publishing in a journal is great, but it doesn't earn you a Ph.D. Many of my friends back in grad school got papers published in journals before they got their doctorate but we all knew the difference between an article and a 300 page thesis. Plus, theses are often turned into books anyway. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| fishy wrote: |
| Publishing in a journal is great, but it doesn't earn you a Ph.D. Many of my friends back in grad school got papers published in journals before they got their doctorate but we all knew the difference between an article and a 300 page thesis. Plus, theses are often turned into books anyway. |
With all due respect fishy, I don't think he was talking about just one article. I believe the poster was referring to someone with several articles and books already published. |
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fishy
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: |
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Then why say "first publication?"
But I see your point...and my father was someone who got tenure with just an M.A. in the humanities. But that was years ago when the competition wasn't as fierce. |
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by2004
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Location: Gyeongsan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the informative responses.
I heard through a little bird that once upon a time, like 20 - 25 yrs ago, tenure was granted to a few who only had an MA. I don't think this was the case in many places but it was there for the taking. I'm not 100% sure and if I'm wrong I stand corrected. Someone mentioned 'special status' and I think that was taken into consideration at the time. But not 'status' in the sense that this prof contributed something unique to Korean society (like they're looking at now) and thus was granted tenure. This is on a different scale.
Anyway long story short I guess I can pretty much give up on getting tenure. I don't want to give away too much but my point was to figure out if I invested money and one day got an MA, would it have been possible? Long term I might have been able to recoup some of the money invested in studying and prosper without having to do the privates, get some sense of long term security etc... Univs here don't exactly reward those with MAs with a ton more money than BA holders. To be fair - it kinda sucks that MAs don't get substantially more! Oh well. C'est la vie. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| fishy wrote: |
| Then why say "first publication?" |
Ah, forgot that line. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| fishy wrote: |
Then why say "first publication?"
But I see your point...and my father was someone who got tenure with just an M.A. in the humanities. But that was years ago when the competition wasn't as fierce. |
Maybe I should have said "First Real Publication"
Some publications aren't worth the paper they are written on. |
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