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whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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 Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: Korean Army Intelligence School |
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Has anybody ever worked for the Korean Army Intelligence School's Languages Dept.?
What was your experience like with them? Pro's and Con's?
Thanks~ |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| The author of the ajoshi stories does. Yaya-boy I think. |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Xuanzang wrote: |
| The author of the ajoshi stories does. Yaya-boy I think. |
Close... but no banana. His 'handle' is Ya-ta Boy. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Is this a legitimate question or is the OP the new school spy who has daily meetings with the boss to report on what teachers say about the new hiring policy?
Paranoia reigns. |
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Looney
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Is this a legitimate question or is the OP the new school spy who has daily meetings with the boss to report on what teachers say about the new hiring policy?
Paranoia reigns. |
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=36311 |
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whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| No, not a spy. Just a dude. Please pm me if you've got a chance...thanks |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| They advertise regularly, which should clue you in. I've seen a couple of ads: long hours, crap pay, crap housing. Why bother. And I don't even think the location works in your favour. Take a pass unless you hear otherwise. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| They advertise regularly, which should clue you in. I've seen a couple of ads: long hours, crap pay, crap housing. Why bother. And I don't even think the location works in your favour. Take a pass unless you hear otherwise. |
I would think that there must be some redeeming aspects to the job, if a veteran like Ya-Ta is there.
As an aside, I've wondered about Ya-Ta's handle. Is that a reference to the 야타적 that was all the rage in 압구정 back in the '90s? |
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Cerriowen
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Location: Pocheon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
I would think that there must be some redeeming aspects to the job |
They don't mind people coming to work hung over, or even still drunk from the night before. Two such people I know went to work several times so drunk they couldn't remember their first couple of classes. The students drink heavily (though in theory they aren't allowed), as do the boss'. It's the perfect job for alcoholics who can't keep jobs back in the states. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Cerriowen wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
I would think that there must be some redeeming aspects to the job |
They don't mind people coming to work hung over, or even still drunk from the night before. Two such people I know went to work several times so drunk they couldn't remember their first couple of classes. The students drink heavily (though in theory they aren't allowed), as do the boss'. It's the perfect job for alcoholics who can't keep jobs back in the states. |
Well, there you go. I knew there must be something, and there it is.  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| They advertise regularly, which should clue you in. I've seen a couple of ads: long hours, crap pay, crap housing. Why bother. And I don't even think the location works in your favour. Take a pass unless you hear otherwise. |
OK, I feel less paranoid than I did this morning. Here goes:
Yes, the school advertises pretty regularly. It's because within 2 months of so of me coming to the school I went from being #10 in seniority to being #3. The school chased out a bunch of good teachers for god knows what reason--one of the known reasons was because they wanted only part-time teachers, not full-time teachers so they could save on pension. That part has changed finally. (Imagine. A government branch finally agreeing to follow their government's law. Innovation at its finest.)
The hours are not long. Just spread out. We work 4 or 6 hours a day, but the hours are almost always spread out over 8 hours. There is no known reason for this except that they can jerk us around, so they do.
The pay is average. Not crap. We got a raise last October.
The apartments are fine and are within a 10 minute walk of school. The area is very quiet and rather pretty if you look out the back window, not the front.
The location is crap. There are only two buses, the Jamshil bus comes once an hour except at lunch/supper time; the Yatap bus comes every 10 minutes or so. Not bad. Very few taxis come on our street. The upside is that it is quiet here. It does beat construction outside your window.
| Quote: |
I would think that there must be some redeeming aspects to the job, if a veteran like Ya-Ta is there.
As an aside, I've wondered about Ya-Ta's handle. Is that a reference to the 야타적 that was all the rage in 압구정 back in the '90s? |
The #1 and maybe only redeeming aspect is the students. They are mid-to late 20's/early 30's and highly, highly motivated. They are a teacher's dream to work with. Polite, dedicated, intelligent, full of humor and curiosity. Ten students per class. Of the 80 students I've worked with at this school, 2 have been jerks...and one of those was reduced to tears when she stepped over the line and apologized profusely. The other was formally ordered to apologize for being in the wrong. Discipline and class control are not issues here. You just have to teach. Very refreshing.
My handle? Hmmm...it's a disguised form of 'Ya! Ta!' Ya! Ta! Boys were a phenom of the 70's/80's before cars were all that common. Spoiled young dudes got daddy's car and cruised around. When they saw a hot prospect, they pulled up, rolled down the window and shouted, "Ya! Ta!" and collected the rewards of their courage. They are the 'cousins' of the Orange Tribe. I adopted the name when I graduated from bike to scooter.  (Irony deliberate.)
| Quote: |
| They don't mind people coming to work hung over, or even still drunk from the night before. Two such people I know went to work several times so drunk they couldn't remember their first couple of classes. The students drink heavily (though in theory they aren't allowed), as do the boss'. It's the perfect job for alcoholics who can't keep jobs back in the states. |
There is an extra class here with students who are not a part of the regular program. Yes, some of them drink and drink heavily. One of them caused me my worst class in my life. But drinking is a rare thing. Sometimes, when there isn't a spare teacher, the regular teachers have to teach that group. When there are enough teachers, the one the school wants to get rid of is assigned that group because the school doesn't care about them.
***
This school has a huge potential. At this time it is not anywhere near what it could be. The school, to its credit, wants to improve the quality of teachers here. Commendable. However, they have adopted a wretched way of getting to their goal. They could just release a sub-par teacher at the end of the contract (or figure out a better way of hiring in the first place), but they are not doing that. They have created a tense, insecure, unstable, unpleasant environment this last month.
At this time, I cannot recommend it to anyone. If it changes again, I would reconsider that advice. The students deserve better than they are getting and the teachers deserve better than they are being treated. (I'm being allowed to float above the fray, but who knows for how long? I'm wrestling with taking the job that was offered or staying around in hopes that things will settle down.)
PS: Sorry about being obscure this morning, but I was feeling very paranoid. Last night I was told that the newest teacher is having daily meetings with the boss and reporting on everything other teachers said. The OP's pic reminded me of her. One teacher has been let go because the supervisor found him sitting down while he was teaching.  Another teacher had to re-interview yesterday two months before her contract is up. The first question in the interview was, "What do you think of the new hiring policy?" She had a choice: Say it sucks and lose the job she wants to keep or lie. She lied. She had been told she would be told by the end of the day yesterday whether she'd keep her job or would have to leave. They didn't tell her last night. The boss called and said he'd tell her this morning. He didn't tell her this morning. He made her wait all day. When I left this afternoon, she still hadn't been told. I don't know if she's a good teacher. I do know that she tries hard and that her students like her. I resent that she's being treated like crap.
Last edited by Ya-ta Boy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John_ESL_White
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
| They advertise regularly, which should clue you in. I've seen a couple of ads: long hours, crap pay, crap housing. Why bother. And I don't even think the location works in your favour. Take a pass unless you hear otherwise. |
OK, I feel less paranoid than I did this morning. Here goes:
Yes, the school advertises pretty regularly. It's because within 2 months of so of me coming to the school I went from being #10 in seniority to being #3. The school chased out a bunch of good teachers for god knows what reason--one of the known reasons was because they wanted only part-time teachers, not full-time teachers so they could save on pension. That part has changed finally. (Imagine. A government branch finally agreeing to follow their government's law. Innovation at its finest.)
The hours are not long. Just spread out. We work 4 or 6 hours a day, but the hours are almost always spread out over 8 hours. There is no known reason for this except that they can jerk us around, so they do.
The pay is average. Not crap. We got a raise last October.
The apartments are fine and are within a 10 minute walk of school. The area is very quiet and rather pretty if you look out the back window, not the front.
The location is crap. There are only two buses, the Jamshil bus comes once an hour except at lunch/supper time; the Yatap bus comes every 10 minutes or so. Not bad. Very few taxis come on our street. The upside is that it is quiet here. It does beat construction outside your window.
| Quote: |
I would think that there must be some redeeming aspects to the job, if a veteran like Ya-Ta is there.
As an aside, I've wondered about Ya-Ta's handle. Is that a reference to the 야타적 that was all the rage in 압구정 back in the '90s? |
The #1 and maybe only redeeming aspect is the students. They are mid-to late 20's/early 30's and highly, highly motivated. They are a teacher's dream to work with. Polite, dedicated, intelligent, full of humor and curiosity. Ten students per class. Of the 80 students I've worked with at this school, 2 have been jerks...and one of those was reduced to tears when she stepped over the line and apologized profusely. The other was formally ordered to apologize for being in the wrong. Discipline and class control are not issues here. You just have to teach. Very refreshing.
My handle? Hmmm...it's a disguised form of 'Ya! Ta!' Ya! Ta! Boys were a phenom of the 70's/80's before cars were all that common. Spoiled young dudes got daddy's car and cruised around. When they saw a hot prospect, they pulled up, rolled down the window and shouted, "Ya! Ta!" and collected the rewards of their courage. They are the 'cousins' of the Orange Tribe. I adopted the name when I graduated from bike to scooter. (Irony deliberate.)
| Quote: |
| They don't mind people coming to work hung over, or even still drunk from the night before. Two such people I know went to work several times so drunk they couldn't remember their first couple of classes. The students drink heavily (though in theory they aren't allowed), as do the boss'. It's the perfect job for alcoholics who can't keep jobs back in the states. |
Give me a break! You were fired. Get over it.
There is an extra class here with students who are not a part of the regular program. Yes, some of them drink and drink heavily. One of them caused me my worst class in my life. But drinking is a rare thing. Sometimes, when there isn't a spare teacher, the regular teachers have to teach that group. When there are enough teachers, the one the school wants to get rid of is assigned that group because the school doesn't care about them. Calling in sick regularly almost every Monday sooner or later comes to the attention of the administration. As stupid as the admin is, they sooner or later figured out what is going on.
***
This school has a huge potential. At this time it is not anywhere near what it could be. The school, to its credit, wants to improve the quality of teachers here. Commendable. However, they have adopted a wretched way of getting to their goal. They could just release a sub-par teacher at the end of the contract (or figure out a better way of hiring in the first place), but they are not doing that. They have created a tense, insecure, unstable, unpleasant environment this last month.
At this time, I cannot recommend it to anyone. If it changes again, I would reconsider that advice. The students deserve better than they are getting and the teachers deserve better than they are being treated. (I'm being allowed to float above the fray, but who knows for how long? I'm wrestling with taking the job that was offered or staying around in hopes that things will settle down.)
PS: Sorry about being obscure this morning, but I was feeling very paranoid. Last night I was told that the newest teacher is having daily meetings with the boss and reporting on everything other teachers said. The OP's pic reminded me of her. One teacher has been let go because the supervisor found him sitting down while he was teaching. Another teacher had to re-interview yesterday two months before her contract is up. The first question in the interview was, "What do you think of the new hiring policy?" She had a choice: Say it sucks and lose the job she wants to keep or lie. She lied. She had been told she would be told by the end of the day yesterday whether she'd keep her job or would have to leave. They didn't tell her last night. The boss called and said he'd tell her this morning. He didn't tell her this morning. He made her wait all day. When I left this afternoon, she still hadn't been told. I don't know if she's a good teacher. I do know that she tries hard and that her students like her. I resent that she's being treated like crap. |
Sounds like most E-visa hagwon jobs in Korea.
- some teachers treated like crap
- FTs forced to teach their 4-6 hours over an 8 hour day
- FTs kept out of the loop
- FT 'reinterviewed' at ten months
- FTs fired to save from paying into pension/ NHI
- "iffy" FTs given the crap classes
sounds like most big hagwons to me. No problem for a decent teacher who doesn't mind being screwed on NHI and pension but terrible for a newb that doesn't have classroom or korean experience.
A vet could probably navigate it all and come out on top, but this place sounds like hell for the average FT in Korea. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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"The hours are not long. Just spread out. We work 4 or 6 hours a day, but the hours are almost always spread out over 8 hours. There is no known reason for this except that they can jerk us around, so they do."
This is a deal breaker right here. Those ARE long hours, and the fact that they spread them out on you is just the capper. Add the other b.s. into the equation, and you have a poor, poor work environment.
Yes, a vet might be able to navigate the waters there, but, again, why bother? If you're there, then it can't be helped. Get the contract (or the term) over with and move on to a better university job. Places continue to heap this crap on teachers because teachers keep lining up to take it...and somehow even justify it. Walk away. |
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Cerriowen
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Location: Pocheon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Sounds like most E-visa hagwon jobs in Korea.
- some teachers treated like crap
- FTs forced to teach their 4-6 hours over an 8 hour day
- FTs kept out of the loop
- FT 'reinterviewed' at ten months
- FTs fired to save from paying into pension/ NHI
- "iffy" FTs given the crap classes
sounds like most big hagwons to me. No problem for a decent teacher who doesn't mind being screwed on NHI and pension but terrible for a newb that doesn't have classroom or korean experience.
A vet could probably navigate it all and come out on top, but this place sounds like hell for the average FT in Korea. |
All the joy of working with a Hakwon, without the tiny benifit of the labor board possibly, maybe, might back you up... since it's the government that'll screw you. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
| They advertise regularly, which should clue you in. I've seen a couple of ads: long hours, crap pay, crap housing. Why bother. And I don't even think the location works in your favour. Take a pass unless you hear otherwise. |
OK, I feel less paranoid than I did this morning. Here goes:
Yes, the school advertises pretty regularly. It's because within 2 months of so of me coming to the school I went from being #10 in seniority to being #3. The school chased out a bunch of good teachers for god knows what reason--one of the known reasons was because they wanted only part-time teachers, not full-time teachers so they could save on pension. That part has changed finally. (Imagine. A government branch finally agreeing to follow their government's law. Innovation at its finest.)
The hours are not long. Just spread out. We work 4 or 6 hours a day, but the hours are almost always spread out over 8 hours. There is no known reason for this except that they can jerk us around, so they do.
The pay is average. Not crap. We got a raise last October.
The apartments are fine and are within a 10 minute walk of school. The area is very quiet and rather pretty if you look out the back window, not the front.
The location is crap. There are only two buses, the Jamshil bus comes once an hour except at lunch/supper time; the Yatap bus comes every 10 minutes or so. Not bad. Very few taxis come on our street. The upside is that it is quiet here. It does beat construction outside your window.
| Quote: |
I would think that there must be some redeeming aspects to the job, if a veteran like Ya-Ta is there.
As an aside, I've wondered about Ya-Ta's handle. Is that a reference to the 야타적 that was all the rage in 압구정 back in the '90s? |
The #1 and maybe only redeeming aspect is the students. They are mid-to late 20's/early 30's and highly, highly motivated. They are a teacher's dream to work with. Polite, dedicated, intelligent, full of humor and curiosity. Ten students per class. Of the 80 students I've worked with at this school, 2 have been jerks...and one of those was reduced to tears when she stepped over the line and apologized profusely. The other was formally ordered to apologize for being in the wrong. Discipline and class control are not issues here. You just have to teach. Very refreshing.
My handle? Hmmm...it's a disguised form of 'Ya! Ta!' Ya! Ta! Boys were a phenom of the 70's/80's before cars were all that common. Spoiled young dudes got daddy's car and cruised around. When they saw a hot prospect, they pulled up, rolled down the window and shouted, "Ya! Ta!" and collected the rewards of their courage. They are the 'cousins' of the Orange Tribe. I adopted the name when I graduated from bike to scooter. (Irony deliberate.)
| Quote: |
| They don't mind people coming to work hung over, or even still drunk from the night before. Two such people I know went to work several times so drunk they couldn't remember their first couple of classes. The students drink heavily (though in theory they aren't allowed), as do the boss'. It's the perfect job for alcoholics who can't keep jobs back in the states. |
There is an extra class here with students who are not a part of the regular program. Yes, some of them drink and drink heavily. One of them caused me my worst class in my life. But drinking is a rare thing. Sometimes, when there isn't a spare teacher, the regular teachers have to teach that group. When there are enough teachers, the one the school wants to get rid of is assigned that group because the school doesn't care about them.
***
This school has a huge potential. At this time it is not anywhere near what it could be. The school, to its credit, wants to improve the quality of teachers here. Commendable. However, they have adopted a wretched way of getting to their goal. They could just release a sub-par teacher at the end of the contract (or figure out a better way of hiring in the first place), but they are not doing that. They have created a tense, insecure, unstable, unpleasant environment this last month.
At this time, I cannot recommend it to anyone. If it changes again, I would reconsider that advice. The students deserve better than they are getting and the teachers deserve better than they are being treated. (I'm being allowed to float above the fray, but who knows for how long? I'm wrestling with taking the job that was offered or staying around in hopes that things will settle down.)
PS: Sorry about being obscure this morning, but I was feeling very paranoid. Last night I was told that the newest teacher is having daily meetings with the boss and reporting on everything other teachers said. The OP's pic reminded me of her. One teacher has been let go because the supervisor found him sitting down while he was teaching. Another teacher had to re-interview yesterday two months before her contract is up. The first question in the interview was, "What do you think of the new hiring policy?" She had a choice: Say it sucks and lose the job she wants to keep or lie. She lied. She had been told she would be told by the end of the day yesterday whether she'd keep her job or would have to leave. They didn't tell her last night. The boss called and said he'd tell her this morning. He didn't tell her this morning. He made her wait all day. When I left this afternoon, she still hadn't been told. I don't know if she's a good teacher. I do know that she tries hard and that her students like her. I resent that she's being treated like crap. |
I bolded a few points that you made. Given all that, why would you work there? |
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