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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: Two Months In & Obama has pulled off an FDR moment |
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It's been 75 years since FDR was elected and conservatives still try to smear FDR and disparage his accomplishment of saving the country by trying to distract the debate to an argument over numbers. I suppose you shouldn't blame them, except for the fact that the same kind of policies that wrecked the economy in 1929 came back under Reagan's neo-Hooverism philosophy and wrecked the economy again in 2008. It must be disillusioning like heck to have your life philosophy shown a second time to be bankrupt. (Hmmm. Is it accurate to say something in bankrupt when it is only a romanitc fantasy of a past that never was?)
Check out Obama's current numbers, even after the major highly controversial legislative measures he's accomplished in these first two months.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697#29980000
In spite of the truly crappy economic news, Obama has turned public sentiment around. Hope is the first step in a recovery. Hope may not be quantifiable, but it is palpable.
Can't help but be reminded of Dylan:
"Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."
To end on a lighter, but still correct, note (go directly to the video):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/01/david-lettermans-ad-for-t_n_181674.html |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Poppycock and bullhockey.
Obama's gonna suffer in the polls in six months once the American public can finally draw a straight-line from TARP 1.0 and TARP 2.0 to their misery.
But Obama's legacy is going to be extremely tarnished once our generation has to struggle to raise our children and take care of the Boomers in the shadow of this massive debt. |
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Dude Ranch
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Poppycock and bullhockey.
Obama's gonna suffer in the polls in six months once the American public can finally draw a straight-line from TARP 1.0 and TARP 2.0 to their misery.
But Obama's legacy is going to be extremely tarnished once our generation has to struggle to raise our children and take care of the Boomers in the shadow of this massive debt. |
It's hard to argue with success:
Right Direction: Now 42% Feb 31% Jan 19% Oct 13%
Wrong Directio: Now 56% Feb 67% Jan 78% Oct 85%
I disagree about him suffering in the polls. FDR did not suffer in the polls, even among the abjectly poor and unemployed because people respected him for sincerely trying. Obama has the same aura about him. I don't see people blaming Obama for any failures in trying to solve a mess everyone knows he didn't create. It's looking more and more like a 30-40 year cycle of liberal rule.  |
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ubermenzch
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Location: bundang, south korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Poppycock and bullhockey.
Obama's gonna suffer in the polls in six months once the American public can finally draw a straight-line from TARP 1.0 and TARP 2.0 to their misery.
But Obama's legacy is going to be extremely tarnished once our generation has to struggle to raise our children and take care of the Boomers in the shadow of this massive debt. |
It's hard to argue with success:
Right Direction: Now 42% Feb 31% Jan 19% Oct 13%
Wrong Directio: Now 56% Feb 67% Jan 78% Oct 85%
I disagree about him suffering in the polls. FDR did not suffer in the polls, even among the abjectly poor and unemployed because people respected him for sincerely trying. Obama has the same aura about him. I don't see people blaming Obama for any failures in trying to solve a mess everyone knows he didn't create. It's looking more and more like a 30-40 year cycle of liberal rule. |
it's beyond silly to call his presidency thus far a success based on poll numbers. this isn't a popularity contest. the world's in a serious crisis. let's wait and judge whether he has achieved "success" based on tangible results, not his "aura". this is going to take time. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Two Months In & Obama has pulled off an FDR moment |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| It's been 75 years since FDR was elected and conservatives still try to smear FDR and disparage his accomplishment of saving the country by trying to distract the debate to an argument over numbers. I suppose you shouldn't blame them, except for the fact that the same kind of policies that wrecked the economy in 1929 came back under Reagan's neo-Hooverism philosophy and wrecked the economy again in 2008. It must be disillusioning like heck to have your life philosophy shown a second time to be bankrupt. (Hmmm. Is it accurate to say something in bankrupt when it is only a romanitc fantasy of a past |
I couldn't agree more.  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
...Obama's gonna suffer in the polls in six months once the American public can finally draw a straight-line from TARP 1.0 and TARP 2.0 to their misery.
But Obama's legacy is going to be extremely tarnished once our generation has to struggle to raise our children and take care of the Boomers in the shadow of this massive debt. |
The left always sinks itself and all of us in the long run. All we need is the right articulation to turn things around. The right way to capture and mobilize people's imaginations. The next Ronald Reagan or Newt Gingrich.
Like this immensely-popular 1970s show that foreshadowed the Reagan Revolution, neoliberalism, and the end of the New Deal-era...
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Boy, the way Glen Miller played. Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days.
Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight.
Gee, our old LaSalle ran great. Those were the days.
And you know who you were then. Girls were girls and men were men.
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.
People seemed to be content. Fifty dollars paid the rent.
Freaks were in a circus tent. Those were the days.
Take a little Sunday spin. Go to watch the Dodgers win.
Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin.
Hair was short and skirts were long. Kate Smith really sold a song.
I don't know just what went wrong. Those Were The Days. |
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wesharris
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Two Months In & Obama has pulled off an FDR moment |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
It's been 75 years since FDR was elected and conservatives still try to smear FDR and disparage his accomplishment of saving the country by trying to distract the debate to an argument over numbers. I suppose you shouldn't blame them, except for the fact that the same kind of policies that wrecked the economy in 1929 came back under Reagan's neo-Hooverism philosophy and wrecked the economy again in 2008. It must be disillusioning like heck to have your life philosophy shown a second time to be bankrupt. (Hmmm. Is it accurate to say something in bankrupt when it is only a romanitc fantasy of a past that never was?)
Check out Obama's current numbers, even after the major highly controversial legislative measures he's accomplished in these first two months.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697#29980000
In spite of the truly crappy economic news, Obama has turned public sentiment around. Hope is the first step in a recovery. Hope may not be quantifiable, but it is palpable.
Can't help but be reminded of Dylan:
"Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."
To end on a lighter, but still correct, note (go directly to the video):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/01/david-lettermans-ad-for-t_n_181674.html |
FDR didn't help turn the economy around, he prolonged the depression.
The start of WWII ended the depression. Get it right, or don't get it at all.
_+_
Wes |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| it's beyond silly to call his presidency thus far a success based on poll numbers. this isn't a popularity contest. the world's in a serious crisis. let's wait and judge whether he has achieved "success" based on tangible results, not his "aura". this is going to take time. |
You're right; it isn't a popularity contest, which is why I didn't mention his 66% personal popularity rate. The numbers posted refer to the public's attitude about the country. The success I referred to was not economic, but psychological. Wes also missed the point, not only about Obama but FDR. Although it isn't spelled out in the Constitution, the president's most important role is 'psychologist/counselor/therapist-in-chief' because a scared, frightened public makes desperate decisions and people who see a positive future make calmer, more reasoned decisions. Leadership is the name of the game and FDR had it and Obama has it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| it's beyond silly to call his presidency thus far a success based on poll numbers. this isn't a popularity contest. the world's in a serious crisis. let's wait and judge whether he has achieved "success" based on tangible results, not his "aura". this is going to take time. |
You're right; it isn't a popularity contest, which is why I didn't mention his 66% personal popularity rate. The numbers posted refer to the public's attitude about the country. The success I referred to was not economic, but psychological. Wes also missed the point, not only about Obama but FDR. Although it isn't spelled out in the Constitution, the president's most important role is 'psychologist/counselor/therapist-in-chief' because a scared, frightened public makes desperate decisions and people who see a positive future make calmer, more reasoned decisions. Leadership is the name of the game and FDR had it and Obama has it. |
Obama has a remarkable knack for producing calm, tranquility, and trust within the electorate.
The problems are a) his judgment (specifically re: TARP & the financial plans) and b) his message of pragmatism.
Because he espouses pragmatism over ideology, he casts a wider, but weaker, net. People are going to judge him on how well his policies work. Ya-Ta seems to think people will give him the benefit of the doubt, but I think his emphasis on pragmatism messaging is cutting into that, unless he can actually turn the situation around (or it turns around on its own).
I think people are going to be really disappointed when we're still in a recession a year from now, and they'll take it out on him. But I still hold to significant depreciation in his poll numbers starting 6 months from now. That is, unless Obama can take focus off the economy and put it instead on health care, education reform, etc. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Because he espouses pragmatism over ideology, he casts a wider, but weaker, net. |
I see this as his strength, not his weakness. Outside of politicians, media pundits and us keyboard warriors, Americans are not a notably ideological people. I see Obama driving straight down the middle of the road, building a base of support carved out of the middle.
I think he is personally liberal, but a governing moderate, much like FDR. There is a famous story about FDR. The gist of it is that some flaming liberal group came into the WH to persuade him to sponsor some major piece of legislation or other. At the end of the meeting FDR said, "I agree with you. We should do it. Now go out there and make me do it." That seems to be what Obama is doing. If nationalization of the banks, for example, is what should be done, then build public support for it and bring Congress along. Incidentally, this is one aspect of his bipartisanship--I think he's open to any idea that looks like it will help.
Barring a major scandal, the public will stay with him. As long as he comes across as working hard and being sincere, his numbers will stay well above 50%. (That's where his mastery of leadership skills comes in.) It's going to be some time before people stop blaming corporate CEOs and Wall Street fat cats for their personal financial problems.
PS: I think O is a political genius. |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought recession was the market self-correcting to over expansion...so why does it matter WHOSE fault it is? |
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Blockhead confidence
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| You're right; it isn't a popularity contest, which is why I didn't mention his 66% personal popularity rate. The numbers posted refer to the public's attitude about the country. The success I referred to was not economic, but psychological. Wes also missed the point, not only about Obama but FDR. Although it isn't spelled out in the Constitution, the president's most important role is 'psychologist/counselor/therapist-in-chief' because a scared, frightened public makes desperate decisions and people who see a positive future make calmer, more reasoned decisions. Leadership is the name of the game and FDR had it and Obama has it. |
"Without vision the people will perish," says the bible.
"Your guilty concience forces you to vote Democrat every so often, but deep down you want a Repulican to rule you like a king," says the Simpsons.
Along with the second quote, I've assumed that liberals tend to be cautious - indecisive, if you want it negatively - while conservatives know what's best for us and don't bother to give reasons.
Now you say Obama is doing a great job of inspiring confidence, which is his main purpose as president. This seems to me more of a Republican way of looking at this role. In fact, since I lived in China, who take paternalism towards their people to the point of treating them like children, I've decided that a distracted or weak president might be good for mature adults. So I disagree with the bible, although you seem not to. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Boy, the way Glen Miller played. Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days.
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Around the time of the collapse of the USSR, I made up a song for an imaginary TV show about an aging Moscow couple who can't adjust to life in Gorbachev's new Russia. (The parody follows the lyrical order of the song as performed on All In The Family, not Gopher's version)
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Boy the Hitler/Stalin pact
Trotsky and his friends were sacked
Sakharov was on the rack. Those were the days!
Dissidents knew where to go:
The gulag archipelago.
Mister, they'd have shot a man like Boris Yeltsin back then.
Didn't need no glasnost.
Afghanistan would not be lost.
Boy, the Ukranian Holocaust!
Those were the days!!
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: |
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I more recently conceived an idea for another sitcom, about some embittered Turkish secularists hankering for the good ol' days of Ataturk...
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| Boy the way they banned the fez! |
And then I couldn't come up with a rhyme for "fez". |
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