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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
Dude, you've got a huge chip on your shoulder or a huge stick up the bum -- either way, you need to relax, or that heart condition is gonna get ya!
Ya know what? I am a bit overweight, too. Ya know what? I've been told that I should try to lose weight and be careful. Ya know what? I was told that it was bad for my heart, that it could cause heart problems. Ya know what? I didn't get any kind of tests, so this observation was out of the blue, based solely on the COMMON FREAKIN' KNOWLEDGE that being overweight increases the chances of heart disease.
You said it was a 1 in a million chance that he would mention heart conditions apropos of nothing -- nope, I would say about 75 in 100 chance.
You are obviously unhappy, and the guy was clearly rude, but if you actually said all the things you put into quotes, I would say you showed your arse more than he did. He was rude, but was showing concern. You were just rude. |
Totally, same happens in America too.
People try to show concern can come off as a "female hygeine washing apparatus".
It's not so much a cultural thing... but the degredation of tact due to generation, areas (ie. rural), or soju...
As a self proclaimed kind and polite person (mostly self-proclaimed) it's very easy to come off the wrong way. 99% of the people in this world CANNOT hold their tongue. What they think goes straight to their tongue before it hits the cerebral cortex. Most of us don't pause to think about what we are really saying, we just say it.
Often I tell my kids, oh you look sad, what's wrong. And then later realize I'm only projecting more sadness onto them by making a wrong assumption about them. IT'S THEIR NATURAL FACE! people must have told them that a hundred times. It's a chip on a their shoulder I've reinforced, probably much the same way these people are doing to you.
I think you have a right to be angry, but one should take steps to avoid confrontation with people. 100% of the people in this world mean well... honestly. but 99% can't express or communicate it the right way. Which explains a whole bunch of struggling FT's I see in Korea. The culture and the sublities are hard to pick up if you aren't used to a collectist and bold culture. You probably have done the same. Maybe you wanted to say something concerning or kind to a teacher but came off as absolute bollocks and she thought you were an idiot.
I remember one time I tried to tell a teacher her dress was really nice. Somehow it came off like I was saying for her age, she looked good. Which implied she was old. Well I shot my foot on that one, but she knew I meant well and never held it against me. Just think back to your own times of putting your foot in your mouth man. Happens a lot. |
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michaelambling
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Location: Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 3MB wrote: |
| Thats funny. RT, man you are paranoid. |
Paranoid android? |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Why no medical privacy? Why insults on medical matters? |
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| Robot_Teacher wrote: |
| I then ask him, "How would you feel if I told you you're old, wrinkled leather face, and ugly?" |
Awesome! That's so funny. Glad you said it.
Fact: You must have thick skin in Asia. Period. Asian people are forever making the rudest comments - not just Koreans. There's a lot of good things to be found in this continent so give it a bit more of a try.
Same thing happened two weeks ago to my husband who is Korean. He went to an office party and proceeded to get pissed up with everyone else. One head co-worker wouldn't stop insisting that my husband was 10 years older than he really was. My husband was gonna quit his job, but he sobered up and realized it wasn't worth it. No apology from co-worker of course. |
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tefain
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Location: Not too far out there
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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I actually see the OP's point about privacy. If what you're saying is true about only being 10 pounds overweight (didn't forget a '0' I hope!) then that's not enough for anyone to say something about your heart. Someone may have told him about the test (not sure why) or he was just being a bit too intrusive.
That said, I think you overreacted to the whole thing. You could have told him "Thanks but I'm fine." Of course it's easy to look back and see how things could have been done, especially if you're sober!
Koreans will be Koreans, for better or worse. You don't have to take a lot of BS, but choose your battles wisely. |
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3MB
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I just read a book "You just dont understand". The book is about differences in how men and women speak, and one of the basic premises of the book is that these differences lead to conflict. This is most likely true, and it can explain why cross-cultural conversations often end up as they did for the OP. We hear what we think we hear, not what the other person meant to say. Thats why when Funaki says most Asians are rude, I cant help but think that most westerners come off just as rude to Asians. Neither side would admit to being rude and would cast fault at the other party. Which is a mistake. Theres also a stupid machismo thing going on here, with people refusing to yield and instead rushing to confront. RT would probably get socked in the face if he did this back home. |
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3MB
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| tefain wrote: |
I actually see the OP's point about privacy. If what you're saying is true about only being 10 pounds overweight (didn't forget a '0' I hope!) then that's not enough for anyone to say something about your heart. Someone may have told him about the test (not sure why) or he was just being a bit too intrusive.
That said, I think you overreacted to the whole thing. You could have told him "Thanks but I'm fine." Of course it's easy to look back and see how things could have been done, especially if you're sober!
Koreans will be Koreans, for better or worse. You don't have to take a lot of BS, but choose your battles wisely. |
Perhaps the guy has his own health problems and was simply projecting his fears and worries? |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Michaelambling,
In my own experience of OFTEN being called fat in Korea, 99% of the time the person saying it has no idea that "overweight" would be the more polite term.... I told folks that said it, "Fat has a very strong connotation of also being ugly, and it is always an insulting term -- maybe a bit like 'crazy' is always insulting in Korean, whereas it doesn't have such a strong, negative feeling in English."
Even that one guy that MEANT to be rude didn't use the term "fat" to me again -- I heard "overweight." I also lost 55 pounds around that time, so I quit hearing even that so much, but yeah...my point is, the connotations of a lot of words are lost. Koreans look words up in dictionaries, and go by the denotations...and I teach 'em the difference, when the opportunities arise and demand it. |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 3MB wrote: |
| tefain wrote: |
I actually see the OP's point about privacy. If what you're saying is true about only being 10 pounds overweight (didn't forget a '0' I hope!) then that's not enough for anyone to say something about your heart. Someone may have told him about the test (not sure why) or he was just being a bit too intrusive.
That said, I think you overreacted to the whole thing. You could have told him "Thanks but I'm fine." Of course it's easy to look back and see how things could have been done, especially if you're sober!
Koreans will be Koreans, for better or worse. You don't have to take a lot of BS, but choose your battles wisely. |
Perhaps the guy has his own health problems and was simply projecting his fears and worries? |
3MB, you're right, my thinking I had heart problem and getting tested 3 weeks ago with negative result is from self induced anxiety. Well anxiety over being in Korea, worrying about not ever seeing my terminally ill mother again, missing my friends, being isolated and lonely, and the global economic crisis with uncertain financial future. Going to rural Korea to live will induce anxiety and insanity on almost any healthy mind.
3MB, the man looked very unhealthy and showed insecurity so he was projecting his negativity on me and correleating it with knowing about my doctor visits and tests. You don't just introduce yourself for the 1st time by saying, "You are fat, I think you have heart problem," unless you know the person you're saying this to had a test and you dislike said person.
Had I not had that strange brew in me last night, I would not had blown up and spoke my mind. I would had just blew him off as I've read before on this site about the, "You're fat," comments. I over reacted due to the alcohol as it's not my normal nature to get angry and feel like fighting as I ignore a lot of bullshit sober. What I got mad about was that he knew I had a heart test 3 weeks ago and then drew the conclusion I was a weak man with heart problem by saying this. The fat statement just exagerated it even more so I did put him in his place. I did get an apology out of him as he did feel ashamed of his rude behavior when I called him on it. He did in fact understand that he was looking down on me and being rude. I thought that by taking the shots with the men at the table would get them to accept me, like me, and be nice to me as refusing the drink is considered rude to the Korean men. It's OK for women to refuse alcohol, but not for men. All men drank alcohol, but the woman drank shots of cider. These men pushed it on me with peer pressure so I drank it and got steamed when one man got rude on me after we had 5 shots without saying much of anything. He was 1 hour late, slammed 5 shots and got negative on me. Alcohol is dangerous in conflicting situations. I didn't want to drink it and don't like to drink with groups, especially those I don't know as someone rude might set me off.
Any where in the world, what is rude and not rude, what is friendly and unfriendly, is universal in many ways. The excuse of, "you must understand our culture," doesn't work to an experienced educated well traveled person. That was rude and I was right to stand up, but I did over react with the crazy brew inducing agression.
I will refuse any drink in any future restaurant gathering. "Cola jusayo." |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 3MB wrote: |
| Thats why when Funaki says most Asians are rude, I cant help but think that most westerners come off just as rude to Asians. . |
I'm not denying that westerners are rude. When I went to TO I thought the people who lived there were the rudest SOBS on the face of the earth. Just their rudeness is different and when they are rude they admit it rather than hiding it behind BS "I care for you" "I'm worried about you". |
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3MB
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 3MB, the man looked very unhealthy and showed insecurity so he was projecting his negativity on me and correleating it with knowing about my doctor visits and tests. You don't just introduce yourself for the 1st time by saying, "You are fat, I think you have heart problem," unless you know the person you're saying this to had a test and you dislike said person. |
I think he was projecting his own worries. How can you possibly know he he knew about your tests? Thats just a guess. Most likely he has his own health problems and was simply projecting.
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| What I got mad about was that he knew I had a heart test 3 weeks ago and then drew the conclusion I was a weak man with heart problem by saying this. |
Again, HOW do you know that he knew about your problems? |
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saw6436
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon, ROK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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There really is no concept of medical privacy hear. My wife is a Nurse Anseshetist (sp) and the Head Nurse of the Sugical team at her hospital. Doctors ROUTINELY discuss a patients medical condition with other doctors, employers, other patients and Joe Smoes like me. Thats just something you have to suck-up if your going to choose to live here.
OP, I think your lack of understanding Korean culture just caused YOU to loose tremendous face. Koreans constantly point out physical flaws of thier friends and relatives. I have one Korean friend with very dark skin. His nickname is 3D (in reference to the DDD workers from SE Asian countries). Pointing out that someone has gotten fat, looks sick, has lots of zits is common and understoodd between Koreans. You may not like it. I may not like it. But thats the way it is. Suck it up of go home.
The bast way to handle this sort of thing is 1. NEVER tell anyone at work about your health status. 2. Ignore it when it crosses into YOUR culural taboos. 3. OR use it as a springboard to open dialog with the other person.
Sorry, I think the OP completely overreacted and made an ass out of him/herself. There really is no excuse other than that. |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| saw6436 wrote: |
Sorry, I think the OP completely overreacted and made an ass out of him/herself. There really is no excuse other than that. |
Yes, indeed. This is what can happen when you get sloshed with the adjoshies. No more soju or oondalsun for me. I get too hot tempered over rudeness when I'm sloshed.
I know I unecessarily made a complete ass out of myself. It would had been better to just walk out and then explain to my school today when they asked why I hastily left. Lesson learned. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| saw6436 wrote: |
There really is no concept of medical privacy hear. My wife is a Nurse Anseshetist (sp) and the Head Nurse of the Sugical team at her hospital. Doctors ROUTINELY discuss a patients medical condition with other doctors, employers, other patients and Joe Smoes like me. Thats just something you have to suck-up if your going to choose to live here.
OP, I think your lack of understanding Korean culture just caused YOU to loose tremendous face. Koreans constantly point out physical flaws of thier friends and relatives. I have one Korean friend with very dark skin. His nickname is 3D (in reference to the DDD workers from SE Asian countries). Pointing out that someone has gotten fat, looks sick, has lots of zits is common and understoodd between Koreans. You may not like it. I may not like it. But thats the way it is. Suck it up of go home.
The bast way to handle this sort of thing is 1. NEVER tell anyone at work about your health status. 2. Ignore it when it crosses into YOUR culural taboos. 3. OR use it as a springboard to open dialog with the other person.
Sorry, I think the OP completely overreacted and made an ass out of him/herself. There really is no excuse other than that. |
Ok this doesn't make it right,
But there is no privacy in the West either. Maybe not so bad as it is here though.
In Ameirca, I routinely overheard orthopedic doctors discuss their patients fractures etc. Even in Oncology where the material is more sensitive, doctors would talk about it in the bathrooms of the hospital. Even though all the signs are plastered everywhere, it doesn't stop people from talking about confidential information.
There's this Big massive sign in the elevator that says "Please don't talk about patients conditions in the elevator and maintain the privacy rights of others". Well, that didn't stop the big bad doctors behind us talking about some guys renal failure.... hahaha hilarious.
And I have talked to a doctor here, hedid slip out the information about his patient, but after he did, promptly told me to keep it a secret, and said sorry it was his mistake that he mentioned the patients name. So there is a privacy rule here, but like in America, it's totally disregarded. |
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dimnd
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Western USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: medical privacy |
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you have to put down on the self-medical for immi when you went to the doctor last..if you don't and it comes to light..you could use the visa..I don't think anything is wrong with putting down on the self-medical that you had your heart checked out and you were all clear.
At least you are being honest for immigration and the school. |
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yesnoyesyesno
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Robot_Teacher wrote: |
Oh yes, I've been told that Spring snow season is the time of sickness, but none of the adults I see around here are sick. I'm the only adult with a runny nose cold, while half the youngsters are sniffling, sneezing, and coughing; some are actually missing school. When I say medical history, I mean going to the doctor in Korea; not before I came to Korea.
This man knows more about me than he should had, but got it wrong and then used a negative thing against me he heard about me. It's obvious he knows I experienced a great deal of worry if I thought I had or do have heart problems. This is not something to be bringing up without even introducing himself or attempting to get to know me first. What a jerk. He doesn't work at my school and I don't know exactly who he is other than him having interests in our school business matters. This is no way to introduce himself in positive face saving light. He was launching an offensive missile at me to say he is uncomfortable with me and disapproves of me for whatever personal reason he has to think this. They just talk about me all the time, but don't open up to me despite all my attempts. They as in principal, vice principal, and other guy, but can't speak English. I just hear my name all the time with a tone of speech of feeling concerned. I know they feel uncomfortable with me coming in here, because they believe Korea is for Koreans only and Korean food is for Koreans only. It really made them feel insecure that I could eat the food and drank some of their uh dal sun. Another man sitting next to me expressed he was surprised I'm consuming this Korean food and drink as it's Korean.
I am their 1st foreign teacher so they don't know how to deal with foreigners nor feel comfortable about it. This is in a small town where hardly no one speaks English. |
your biggest problem is you're interpreting things and so convinced in your interpretation of the matter that you are unable/unwilling to see that there are other ways of thinking or doing things |
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