Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Woden]

On this forum there are many examples of how westerners get riled by Korean rudeness. I read this forum before coming to Korea and expected hell. I have been very pleasantly surprised and very rarely get pissed off by rudeness, and if I do it is the same as at home, like water off a duck's back. I certainly don't let it fester inside me. I do the same at home.

I just wondered how many other people feel similar, and why it is so many people have such a different experience in Korea. I'm not saying there is no rudeness, but that is life. The goodness and kindness far outweighs the rudeness, from what I've experienced.

Are the differing experiences purely down to psychological projection?

[Xuanzang]

It just happens and people report back on it - the rudeness. Maybe we need a random acts of kindness thread.

[Seoul'n'Corea]

[Woden]

Why do some people experience a country replete with rudeness, and others a pleasant country with kind people, who are not faultless?

[victorology]

This is an interesting question. I've been here for 3 1/2 years and have enjoyed my time in Korea as well as my visits home. I'd say the vast majority of people I've met in person enjoy Korea. I'm interested to hear the responses.

[Ukon]

I agree.....I've met few honestly rude koreans.....most have been quite kind...

I honestly think most of the negative is due to hagwon jobs...especially the bad ones......A money hungry boss, crazy complaining K-moms, overworked korean teachers who are none to pleased you make significantly more than them for less work, and Korean kids who hate being forced to go to the hagwon. If the daily koreans I met usually were them, I'd probaly think negatively of them too.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I completely agree with you..................until today.

This afternoon I witnessed a scene that literally turned my stomach. It has fundamentally shaken my faith in humans being basically good.

So, I was waiting to cross at a cross walk when I heard,what I was soon to find out was, a fire engine followed by an ambulance approaching. The light for the fire engine turned red with a taxi and a bongo stuck in front of it (because of the light. Neither tried to get out of the way. So maybe 5-10 seconds later the light for the cars to pass perpindicular to the ambo/engine turns green letting a few dozen cars come streaming passed. All completely oblivious to the honking fire engine.

Meanwhile neither the bongo or taxi are making any attempt to get out of the way. Eventually the taxi manages to cut into traffic (which he would have done fire engine or no) but the bongo is still sitting there (exibiting the uniquely Korean inability to pick a gap, a story/theory for another day.

Still nobody stops to let the bongo thru thus not letting the engine thru. Eventually the lights change and the fire engine and ambo can move. So I cross the street when the green man goes to find that you can actually see the accident scene from the intersection! So all those cars streaming thru the intersection could see the crash scene which I believe had people on the road, I didn't stop to gawp and it was maybe 75m down the road.

What kind of culture doesn't have 'you must stop to let emergency services through' hard wired into it's DNA. My getting where I want to go is more important than some poor sap splattered over the road. If I didn't know better I would think they were racing to ambulance to go gawk at the scene.

To top it off when I finally made it to McDs, which I didn't feel much like eating by then, some douche bag and his ugly girlfriend cut in line, in front of some nuns.

[Whitey Otez]

This thread again....

Newbie apologist: "I love this place! It's wonderful!"

Optimistic old-timer: "Yes. I don't understand those old-timers who dig on this delightful host country. Why don't they just move to Costa Rica if they are seeking paradise?"

Bitter old-timer: "I'm sick of you young bucks coming in here, acting like you got a place to talk from when you're only been here long enough for a cup of coffee."

Optimistic old-timer: "It's bitter old guys like you that ruin Korea!"

Troll: "I have nothing enlightening to add to this discussion. Doodie."

Bitter old-timer: "It's blind sheep like you that overlook the problems that ought to be corrected!"

Optimistic old-timer: "You're a sheep!"

Bitter old-timer: "I hate you all."

It'll pop up again in three weeks. Always does.

It turns out, everyone you meet in person won't be as vocal about their problems with Korea (at first). The biggest haters on this board are probably alright guys if you meet them on a hike in the mountains. They just don't have an outlet to vent the little things that they have to internalize every day.

[earthbound14]

I think the acts of rudeness are remembered above acts of kindness and are more likely to get reported here. I never feel the need to tell people when someone let's me get on the bus first, but I'm more likely to be pissed off when someone pushes in front of me.

Korea has some different ideas of what is polite and some western folks have a hard time adjusting. There are honest cultural differences that might take time to adjust to. Some English speakers here dislike it when a Korean man loudly clears his throat or slurps food. Koreans dislike people who talk loudly on the train or who state theri opinions too openly.

Some Koreans are just rude, but often the person who is posting about the rude behaviour might be having a hard time realising if it is Koreans who are rude or just this one person.

Korea is still developing in some ways and Koreans can be very rude in certain contexts. A few years ago old people were really bad about cutting in lines. Until the yellow feet were placed on the subway loading area people tended to push on to the train before people had gotten off.

The most likely reason to find Koreans rude will be a bad employer. Employers can get away with a lot here and treat employees with less respect than most foreign people expect. A good boss in Korea knows this and will do a great job of bringing both Korean politeness and western politeness into the work environement. These people are awesome and make ones stay in Korea really good. Others are shisters of the worst degree, while others are just used to being the king and treating all their employees (Korean or foreign) as pond scum. This even happens in the UN or in big business here.

Stay here long enough and you will see rudeness you didn't see before, often from those who employ you or within the structure itself that is relatively antagonistic to your self interests in the land of the Han (highly protectionist policies). At first you don't notice as you are happy to get a free meal or free drink from time to time, or chat up someone at a bar. Sooner or later though the deeper antagonism of Korea itself towards the outer world grinds away at the polite surface (they are pretty damned polite people for the most part, especially to tourists...tell everyone you are a tourist and you love kimchi and you'll get treated like a king) and you see the lines that are drawn between Koreans and you.

Luckily those lines are changing and as Korea becomes more modern (with modern etiquette and laws) it is also becoming more open to other cultures and economies.

[earthbound14]

[Goku]

Manners is subjective

To a westerner, Japanese people are considered polite

To a Latin American, Japanese can come off as cold and uncaring.

Which is why the informed people aren't so offended by the "lack of manners" that Koreans have. I DO to a degree see a huge problem, but I don't think it's cultural as so much a problem created by technology and generation gaps. It's being experienced worldwide. All countries have this problem of fading codes of manners.

Even Japan, 30 years ago it was considered one of the safest and politest cultures of the world. You could leave your camera in a park and come back 4 hours later to find it in the same spot. You can't do that anymore and Japanese kids have started to use the rude forms because they "think it's cool".

There are some white and blacks though. For example, obviously punching someone in the face is rude. But what about personal space? You could interpret as cold if you are far or too intrusive if you are close.

[Rusty Shackleford]

[Robot_Teacher]

Developed country that looks westernized on the surface, but is culturally underdeveloped or retarded. They don't take time to enjoy life as they're going to work Saturday with many blue collar people working 7 days a week as they bang away in the mechanic shops all day on Sundays too.

Yes, my co-teacher told me today everyone, but me are working Saturday and feel it's not right I'm a special exception if I'm a part of this school. She asked if I would come in and I flat out said "no I have plans, it's my time to enjoy a small part of my life." I told her it's unacceptable to be asked to work Saturdays, unless you have Monday off and that I would not had taken this job without a contract that states it any other way. It's a 5 day a week job. When Friday comes around, it's the weekend and you go enjoy life. That's only proper. What you do is fail to take the time to enjoy and end up missing out on even developing a little culture about you. It's just all work and no play for you.

She was like, "Oh yes, you no work weekend, Korea does not take time to enjoy life."

Honestly, the Koreans lack culture about them and the country is one of the most boring cultures in the world. Lacking a modern with the times culture is why they seem rude.

[Harpeau]

[harlowethrombey]

Kindness:

Older couple started a conversation with me coming down Dobongsan, very nice, gave me their number and said if I had any problems in Korea to call them.

A few weeks back a businessman actually stopped and held out his hand to let me onto the subway first. I was so shocked my mouth actually popped open, then I smiled and let him go first with a nod.

Sometimes people in my building will hold the door open for me or say 'thank you' when I hold the door open for them.

Constant gifts from the students. Today the students did a choreographed dance in the middle of class that ended with 'I love you!'

My older brothers on the tennis team have never, ever let me pay for anything. Meals, court-time, nothing.

While in Gangnam I was walking down the street and a younger korean guy blew smoke from his cigarette off to the side. It wasnt on purpose, but it was right into my face. One of his friends saw and stopped to apologize for him.

And I'm sure there are many more, from co-workers or friends or whatever.

I think, unfortunately, the acts of rudeness leave a longer impression. But, despite some cultural oddities in etiquette here (I'm being diplomatic), people are people are people.