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English usage/Grammar
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Girlygirl



Joined: 31 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: English usage/Grammar Reply with quote

Hey folks,

I have questions about English usage/grammar, your input would be appreciated.

Correct me if I'm wrong in these instances.


1. I need to go hospital. = I'm sick and need to be admitted to any hospital.

2. I need to go to the hospital. = Is this same as #1 except that the listener knows what specific hospital the speaker is referring to, right? Furthermore, I might not be a patient rather a visitor. For example, I need to go to the hospital to visit my friend.

Then it gets tricky with IN vs At.

3. I'm in the hospital. = I'm physically inside the building AND I'm a patient.

4. I'm at the hospital. = I'm somewhere on the hospital grounds AND I'm a visitor.

5. Do you use "I work IN/AT a hospital? I use "work at"


Argh! Today is Sunday, I shouldn't have to think about work. Mad
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losing_touch



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Location: Ulsan - I think!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: English usage/Grammar Reply with quote

Girlygirl wrote:
Hey folks,

I have questions about English usage/grammar, your input would be appreciated.

Correct me if I'm wrong in these instances.


1. I need to go hospital. = I'm sick and need to be admitted to any hospital.

I need to go to a hospital.[/a] You still need an article.

2. [i]I need to go to the hospital.
= Is this same as #1 except that the listener knows what specific hospital the speaker is referring to, right? Furthermore, I might not be a patient rather a visitor. For example, I need to go to the hospital to visit my friend.

Then it gets tricky with IN vs At.

3. I'm in the hospital. = I'm physically inside the building AND I'm a patient.

4. I'm at the hospital. = I'm somewhere on the hospital grounds AND I'm a visitor.

5. Do you use "I work IN/AT a hospital? I use "work at"


Argh! Today is Sunday, I shouldn't have to think about work. Mad
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: English usage/Grammar Reply with quote

Girlygirl wrote:
Hey folks,

I have questions about English usage/grammar, your input would be appreciated.

Correct me if I'm wrong in these instances.


1. I need to go hospital. = I'm sick and need to be admitted to any hospital.

2. I need to go to the hospital. = Is this same as #1 except that the listener knows what specific hospital the speaker is referring to, right? Furthermore, I might not be a patient rather a visitor. For example, I need to go to the hospital to visit my friend.

Then it gets tricky with IN vs At.

3. I'm in the hospital. = I'm physically inside the building AND I'm a patient.

4. I'm at the hospital. = I'm somewhere on the hospital grounds AND I'm a visitor.

5. Do you use "I work IN/AT a hospital? I use "work at"


Argh! Today is Sunday, I shouldn't have to think about work. Mad


1. I've never heard a native speaker say a sentence like this.

2. This is the sentence people would say in normal conversation. Some would say 'the' hospital and others 'a' hospital. Technically there may be a difference, but in common usage there isn't.

Someone planning a visit to a friend in the hospital would not say, "I need to go to the hospital" and just stop there because it would be misleading. A visitor would add 'to visit a friend'.

3. Correct

4. Mostly correct. Some people would say "I'm at the hospital" when they are in fact inside the building.

5. Both are acceptable where I come from.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought of another example for in/at. When the library is part of a bigger building, then "I'm in the library", but when the library is a separate building it's "I'm at the library" even though I'm inside. I don't believe we always clearly distinguish in/at.
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blackjack



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: English usage/Grammar Reply with quote

Girlygirl wrote:
Hey folks,

I have questions about English usage/grammar, your input would be appreciated.

Correct me if I'm wrong in these instances.


1. I need to go hospital. = I'm sick and need to be admitted to any hospital.

2. I need to go to the hospital. = Is this same as #1 except that the listener knows what specific hospital the speaker is referring to, right? Furthermore, I might not be a patient rather a visitor. For example, I need to go to the hospital to visit my friend.

Then it gets tricky with IN vs At.

3. I'm in the hospital. = I'm physically inside the building AND I'm a patient.

4. I'm at the hospital. = I'm somewhere on the hospital grounds AND I'm a visitor.

5. Do you use "I work IN/AT a hospital? I use "work at"


Argh! Today is Sunday, I shouldn't have to think about work. Mad


1 is just wrong, it should be "I need to go to a hospital" however "i need to go to the hospital" can be used to the same effect. you would use the if there is only one hospital.

3 and 4

I'm in the hospital, means you are inside the building but not necessarily a patient. I'm at the hospital, means you are at the hospital, but you could be a patient

with 5, it's difficult. If I heard i work in a hospital, I would think a non-medical job, such as cleaning or cooking. But that could just be me.

I think you are looking for rules that don't exist. There is a large overlap in all of the examples you have given
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maingman



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Location: left Korea

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: , Reply with quote

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/index.html


Smile
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Girlygirl



Joined: 31 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone.

I meant to say "I need to go to hospital." No indefinite or definite article needed. Of course you can say this. I think the British here will jump in and agree with me.

The reason I asked initially 'cause I realize in some instances "IN & AT" do not mean the same. Examples:

1. I'm in the swimming pool = I'm in the pool itself (in water)

2. I'm at the swimming pool. = I'm on site.

3. I'm at the zoo = I'm there as a visitor.

4. AND I never say: I'm in the zoo. As only animals are in the zoo (cages).

5. I'm in prison = I committed a crime.

6. I'm in the prison/at the prison. = I'm visiting someone.
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bobbybigfoot



Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Girlygirl wrote:


I meant to say "I need to go to hospital." No indefinite or definite article needed.


This is wrong. End of story. You always need an article.

Home and school are exceptions to the rule.
e.g. I need to go home. I need to go to school.

But it doesn't work with hospital. Anyone who says it does is not a native speaker. Or is retarded.
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blackjack



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobbybigfoot wrote:
Girlygirl wrote:


I meant to say "I need to go to hospital." No indefinite or definite article needed.


This is wrong. End of story. You always need an article.

Home and school are exceptions to the rule.
e.g. I need to go home. I need to go to school.

But it doesn't work with hospital. Anyone who says it does is not a native speaker. Or is retarded.


Unless you are from one of the commonwealth countries, ya idiot.
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bobbybigfoot



Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackjack wrote:
bobbybigfoot wrote:
Girlygirl wrote:


I meant to say "I need to go to hospital." No indefinite or definite article needed.


This is wrong. End of story. You always need an article.

Home and school are exceptions to the rule.
e.g. I need to go home. I need to go to school.

But it doesn't work with hospital. Anyone who says it does is not a native speaker. Or is retarded.


Unless you are from one of the commonwealth countries, ya idiot.


Maybe you brits speak this way, but it sure isn't North American English.
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blackjack



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobbybigfoot wrote:
blackjack wrote:
bobbybigfoot wrote:
Girlygirl wrote:


I meant to say "I need to go to hospital." No indefinite or definite article needed.


This is wrong. End of story. You always need an article.

Home and school are exceptions to the rule.
e.g. I need to go home. I need to go to school.

But it doesn't work with hospital. Anyone who says it does is not a native speaker. Or is retarded.


Unless you are from one of the commonwealth countries, ya idiot.


Maybe you brits speak this way, but it sure isn't North American English.


Not a brit but pretty sure I'm a native speaker (the retard is debatable).

Hospital, university, college, church, city hall, prison don't need articles. In fact a lot of institutions don't need an article.

Don't be so quick to make black and white statements, or you risk looking like an idiot.
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackjack makes a good point there...commonwealth countries tend to be first to manipulate grammar structures of the English language...Pinker mentions a bit about this in the book...The Language Instinct.
Dropping the articles from common nouns is an ongoing process.
I first heard...I have stomach ache...from a British guy.
Of course I thought...hey... a stomach ache...but low and behold...common usage on the other side of the pond.
As for institutions...some take an article and some don't...and no good rule on that one yet...and not soon to be one either...as more articles seem to get dropped as the language evolves.
What is even more fun is "home".
I am going home.....no article....and no "to".
Home sweet home. Wink
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bobbybigfoot



Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cosmic Hum wrote:

I first heard...I have stomach ache...from a British guy.


Sounds like a Korean talking. Or Tarzan.

Next it will be:

"I need to go to restaurant."

"I need to go police station."

Then, "Me, police station." Grunt.
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ernie



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've never heard a native english speaker from any country say 'i'm going to hospital' or 'i have stomachache'.
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blackjack



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ernie wrote:
i've never heard a native english speaker from any country say 'i'm going to hospital' or 'i have stomachache'.


I'm going to hospital is 100% correct (depending where you are from)

What are you doing friday?
I have to go to hospital.

Man I feel sick, I'm going to hospital.

I have stomachache, doesn't sound right, but I'm sure I've heard it before.

What about, I have period pain, I have backache. ???
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