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gazz
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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G20 meetings have a long history of attracting the most hardcore of protestors who hide behind the 99% of good honnest people who protest.
This was an extream step for the police to take, but in this instance was fully called for in my opinion.
The proposed 'Summer of Rage' in the UK should be good fun!  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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This is the downside of kettling
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I recently wrote in the Guardian about the upside of kettling. The tragic death of Ian Tomlinson is the downside. It is ironic that a strategy designed to contain demonstrators and minimise violent clashes with police should be indirectly responsible for the death of an innocent bystander. Kettling by its very nature does not discriminate between potential rioters and innocent persons, whether demonstrators or bystanders. Such a rigid strategy does not allow any discretion by police officers.
The shocking footage of the attack on Tomlinson is made all the worse by the initial denials of any police contact and probable apocryphal information that the first police contact with Tomlinson was when officers went to his aid and were driven back by a fuselade of bottles and missiles. Has Scotland Yard learned nothing from the Jean Charles de Menezes case, when misinformation about shooting a terrorist was broadcast by the then commissioner Sir Ian Blair? The far-reaching consequences of police disinformation is that they will not be believed in the future. If the police cannot be trusted to accurately recall events, the propaganda war will be lost. The police are in a unique situation of accountability; everything they do in a public order situation is going to be scrutinised. They cannot afford to close ranks or attempt to cover up.
This case is going to be a huge challenge to the new commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson. On the one hand, he has to be seen to be supportive of his men. And on the other, he has to satisfy the public clamour for justice to be seen to be done. He will be well aware of the Blair Peach case, where a young New Zealand teacher was struck on the head and killed by a policeman on a demonstration in the early 1970s. The police officer was never identified and the investigators claimed that they were met with a wall of silence and an apparent closing of ranks by the special patrol group. The failure of the police to resolve this case led to the public vilification and subsequent disbandment of the special patrol group.
The death of Tomlinson will undoubtedly lead to a review of police strategy. What at first appeared to be an unremarkable confrontation is likely to take on a life of its own. At first sight the police action appears excessive in the circumstances. A violent shove of a middle-aged man who does not appear to pose any threat to police has taken on a whole new significance because he has subsequently died. The IPCC has quickly stated that this is going to be a supervised investigation. Any investigation of this type is going to look at possible criminal offences. Although nobody would blame police for Tomlinson's medical condition, there will be questions asked about the violence he was subjected to and whether that is likely to have shortened his life.
The type of confrontation between Tomlinson and the police was probably common in the course of the demonstrations and would have been fairly insignificant to most police officers involved that day. They were on a high state of readiness and it is likely that some police officers react more aggressively than others. Despite extensive training it is always difficult to foresee how any officer will respond to a set of circumstances. There is no doubt that some of the people who were seen to be goading the police try to pick on an officer that they think may be a weak link and may overreact. This clearly is not the case with Tomlinson, who in fact had his back to the police and his hands in his pocket, but what we don't know is whether there had been earlier confrontations between him and Tomlinson, and one can only speculate on that. What we do know is that this wouldn't have become such a big issue if Tomlinson hadn't died.
Stephenson is going to have his hands full if he is to retain the integrity of the police service and the trust of the public.
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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I gotta ask....
What is "Kettling" ?
Is this even English? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Another video that shows the police account was a pack of lies. No barrage of missiles, and the protestors seem well behaved.
New G20 video compounds doubts over police account of Ian Tomlinson's death
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New footage obtained by the Guardian today gives an insight into the way police and protesters treated Ian Tomlinson, the man who collapsed and died shortly after being struck and pushed over by the police at last week's G20 protest.
The video provides further evidence that the initial explanation of Tomlinson's final moments released by police was misleading. It also corroborates the version of events given to the Guardian by witnesses to his death, some of whom are pictured in the film.
Moments before the video was shot, around 7.20pm on 1 April, Tomlinson was struck with a baton and thrown to the floor by a riot officer who had covered half his face with a balaclava and concealed his badge number.
Tomlinson was then seen stumbling down Cornhill, in the City of London, towards the spot, opposite St Michael's Alley, where he collapsed.
The footage, shot by Nabeela Zahir, a 27-year-old freelance journalist from London, contains three important elements to note:
� Police move quickly to push away those protesters and bystanders who were aiding Tomlinson, including a man on the phone to the ambulance service. The ambulance service wanted to be put in contact with the officer, who declined to take the call.
� The reaction of protesters is important. After the demonstration, police accused them of impeding Tomlinson's treatment by subjecting the officers and medics to a hail of missiles. In the video, a missile is seen to be thrown but you can hear someone in the crowd saying: "There's someone hurt. Don't throw anything." This indicates something was thrown, but certainly there was no barrage of missiles on film, and nothing reached the police. A man is also seen, standing with his arms in the air, shouting: "There is someone hurt here. Back the *beep* up."
� The riot officers have concealed their faces. Pause at 56 seconds. There are four officers in shot. Three have their face masks pulled half-way up their faces. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:28 am Post subject: |
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The helper: Ian Tomlinson was obeying police orders, says G20 protester
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The man who lifted Ian Tomlinson to his feet after a riot officer hit him with a baton and threw him to the ground told the Guardian last night how the attack unfolded.
Alan Edwards, 34, from Derbyshire said he rushed to Mr Tomlinson's aid because he was worried the officers would continue the violent attack. "I didn't know what they were going to do to him," he said. "I couldn't just leave him there."
Edwards said he had been trapped inside police cordons around Cornhill, near the Bank of England, for about six hours when he first saw Mr Tomlinson. "I was stood on the corner, and basically they'd pushed [Tomlinson] around. He was saying: 'I want to go home. I live down there. I'm trying to get home.'" Mr Tomlinson was obeying police orders to move up the street, Edwards said.
His attention had been drawn to Mr Tomlinson when the street suddenly became flooded with barking dogs.
"I was watching up the street where the dogs were. He came flying towards me and because of where I was he literally came straight at me," he said.
"It's just the way he flew - he went about six feet. I didn't talk to him straight away. I was more concerned police wouldn't get at him. They'd already pushed him over."
Edwards will make a full statement to the Independent Police Complaints Commission today. But he has already given a preliminary description to the police watchdog of what happened. "When I spoke to the lady at the IPCC she asked what happened when [Tomlinson] fell over. I said: 'He didn't fall, he was pushed.'" Edwards's evidence could prove crucial to the criminal investigation into Mr Tomlinson's death. He is the only person to have said publicly he made direct eye contact with the riot officer who assaulted Mr Tomlinson.
"I tried to eyeball him to see if I would remember who he was but he was balaclavaed up," Edwards said. "All you could see was his hands and his eyes. He looked slightly crazy. That's why I stood my ground a bit."
After picking up Mr Tomlinson from the ground, Edwards had a brief exchange with him. "I said, you OK, mate? He said: No, I live down there - that's where I live. I can't get there any other way. I'm trying to get home."
Edwards, who had been to demonstrations before, said at the time he had not been "particularly shocked" by the assault because he had seen similar incidents in the past. His message to Mr Tomlinson's family would be: "I am sorry I could not help any more."
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So it seems that because of the kettling, the poor bloke couldn't get to his home. And then some sick copper brutally assaulted him out of nowhere and set off a heart attack. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Charging horses from behind...the guy deserved to be struck by a baton.
But what is the excuse for police treatment in the following incidents:
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1: 1.22pm, Threadneedle Street, Michael Preston, 43, press photographer, from London
On Old Broad Street I was pushed on my back by an inspector, who was moving journalists backwards. I went sprawling and broke my laptop. When I said [to the inspector]: 'You just pushed me over,' he got his face really close to mine and shouted at the top of his voice, 'Don't be stupid, that's a ridiculous suggestion'.
The police were trying to hold photographers back to prevent us from photographing the demo. Effectively, none of us could work properly. Later, after midday on Threadneedle Street, police were hitting the first four rows of the crowd but it was having no effect because of the surge of people from behind.
The police were lashing out. I think it was a mix of British Transport police and Metropolitan police officers. There were loads of baton charges. I was swirling about in the crowd. After taking a picture at
1:21pm, I held up my camera in my right hand and had a press card in my left hand. I shouted to police: 'I'm press, I'm press'.
The officer who was coming toward me made eye contact and shouted: 'I don't care. Get back, get back.' There was nowhere for me to go. He then swung his truncheon upwards to hit me on my left elbow. He certainly saw my press pass. I've never felt pain like that in my life. I couldn't open my eyes. Later there were lumps on my arms the size of potatoes. My arm was broken.
I've now ordered a military Kevlar helmet with press written on the front and back for protection when I cover another demonstration.
2: 4.45pm, Threadneedle Street, Jack Bright, 19, from Kent
We were at the front. I was being hit. I went forward a couple of yards and got smacked. Ultimately - by the Royal Bank of Scotland - I could understand it was a general fight [between protesters and police]. But down this end we were just sat around to have a peaceful protest and they stormed in hitting us.
3: 7.15pm, Threadneedle Street, Justin Meggitt
Justin Meggitt suffers bites inflicted by a police dog near the Bank of England.
4: 11pm, Bishopsgate, Ernest Rodker, 71, cabinet maker, from south London
I was on the demonstration around the Bank of England, and in the evening I went with a friend to the climate camp to see what was going on.
Before we got to it we reached a cordon, a line of riot police moving people north up Bishopsgate. They were being very aggressive. They were shouting, 'Move. Move.' They were bellowing. Some people were trying to get out of the way, on the side of the street, but they were being forced on.
I saw one woman who had collapsed on the ground with her head in her hands. She looked completely terrified. A policeman was just standing over her, just shouting 'Move'. This was a crowd of about 100 people, not a threatening group.
Then, without any warning, a couple of policeman knocked me to the ground. It was a bit like what happened to Ian Tomlinson. It wasn't a push, it was like a rugby tackle.
I was holding my camera so I couldn't break my fall properly and landed very heavily. I scrambled up and they were screaming at me - 'Move, just move' - at the top of their voices. It was like a tactic to frighten people. Then they knocked me over again.
I don't know how many police pushed me. I was a bit shaken by then. I broke my hip a few years ago and for a second I was worried it might have happened again.
As it is, I've got a very big, painful bruise down my side. I went to see my doctor, and he looked at it and just said, 'My God'.
5: 9.45pm, Bishopsgate, Chris Abbott, 30, deputy director of Oxford Research Group thinktank, from London
After the first police charge on the climate camp at about 7.30pm it had calmed down, and we were all just sitting there.
The next thing you know the riot police just steamed in, without any warning at all. I was still sitting on the ground and a policeman leant over the top of my girlfriend and punched me right in the face, on the nose. I could see him pulling back his fist and was thinking, 'I can't believe he's about to do this.' I was surrounded by a group of police, maybe four or five. They started punching me and hitting me on the temple and cheekbone with the edge of their shields. I had my hands in the air to show I wasn't resisting and my head tucked into my chest for protection.
I was worried about my girlfriend as I couldn't see her but I was also starting to get a bit worried for myself, thinking this was getting out of hand. I realised I was stuck in a bit of a corner. You could see the police looking round, wondering who to go for, and there wasn't really anyone left apart from me. The police were basically a gang. They were looking for people to beat up. I was thinking, 'It could get very, very nasty now.'
Luckily ... a member of the public dragged me away, saying, 'Leave him alone, he's not doing anything.'
The police didn't give us any orders. It wasn't even that we could leave. We were trapped. The whole thing was ludicrous. It was a really well-planned protest, with legal observers and police liaisons. People came to have a peaceful protest and by that time they just wanted to go home, and would have happily done so."
6: 9.45pm, Bishopsgate, Louise Broadbent, 27, environmental consultant, from London
I was sitting down in the climate camp with my boyfriend, we'd been there for two or three hours. We were laughing and joking with the police. About half an hour before it happened, they started saying, 'We've got a little surprise for you,' but they wouldn't say anything more.
Then, with no warning that I could hear, the police just steamed in. They were doing a lot of kicking and punching. Two police got hold of me, one on each side, and pulled me away. They had me in a wristlock on both sides, my arms pulled right up behind me, telling me they were going to break my wrists.
Once I was outside the cordon they were saying, 'What shall we do with her now?' and laughing. And one said, 'Let's chuck her back in.'
They shouted, 'Coming through!' and literally threw me into the air, head first, booting me in the back. Luckily I landed on top of someone, but I've still ended up with an egg-sized lump on my head.
"I've got no idea what they were doing. I assumed they were dragging me out to arrest me, or take me away. I've complained to the IPCC, and to my MP and London Assembly member.
7: 11.45pm, Bishopsgate, Paul Saville, sociology and criminology student, from Bristol
You could feel the atmosphere change. As the evening went on, what you'd call the daytime police, the friendly ones, gradually left and riot police took their place.
When they moved in they started beating people with batons and shields. Some people sat down and they were literally walking over them.
My girlfriend was at our tent so I ran back. But the police line was moving too fast. I got hit with a baton on my elbow, on my wrist and then on my shoulder. I got pushed over two or three times and fell heavily. I'm not sure if it was this or the batons that broke the wrist. I didn't know it was broken, I just couldn't feel my thumb.
As we got funnelled out down the south end of Bishopsgate the police there were taunting us, saying, 'Good night, sweet dreams, hope you had fun.'
When I shut my eyes I can still hear the police shouting. The wrist is going to get better but that's what I keep thinking about. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/11/g20-protest-witnesses-police-actions |
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Insidejohnmalkovich
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: Pusan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Funny thing. I have never been a victim of police brutality. Maybe because I respect and fear the magistrate who bears the sword and thus avoid rowdy protests. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Charging horses from behind...the guy deserved to be struck by a baton.
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Well, at least he wasn't kettled. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Insidejohnmalkovich wrote: |
| Funny thing. I have never been a victim of police brutality. Maybe because I respect and fear the magistrate who bears the sword and thus avoid rowdy protests. |
Police intimidation is apparently having its intended effect. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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'Kettling' is done in the US regularly, too, under the justification of time, place, and manner of speech regulation.
Wiki 1st Amendment
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| Free speech zones are areas set aside in public places for political activists to exercise their right of free speech as an exercise of what is commonly called "TPM" or "time, place manner" regulation of speech. Free speech zones are set up by the Secret Service who scout locations near which the president is to pass or speak. Officials may target those displaying signs and escort them to the free speech zones prior to and during the event. Protesters who refuse to go to free speech zones could be arrested and charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. In 2003, a seldom-used federal law was brought up that says that "willfully and knowingly to enter or remain in any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting" is a crime |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
'Kettling' is done in the US regularly, too, under the justification of time, place, and manner of speech regulation.
Wiki 1st Amendment
| Quote: |
| Free speech zones are areas set aside in public places for political activists to exercise their right of free speech as an exercise of what is commonly called "TPM" or "time, place manner" regulation of speech. Free speech zones are set up by the Secret Service who scout locations near which the president is to pass or speak. Officials may target those displaying signs and escort them to the free speech zones prior to and during the event. Protesters who refuse to go to free speech zones could be arrested and charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. In 2003, a seldom-used federal law was brought up that says that "willfully and knowingly to enter or remain in any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting" is a crime |
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And do they force everyone (protestor and spectator alike) to remain penned in for 6 or more hours and occasionally charge them with batons for apparantly no reason? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
'Kettling' is done in the US regularly, too, under the justification of time, place, and manner of speech regulation.
Wiki 1st Amendment
| Quote: |
| Free speech zones are areas set aside in public places for political activists to exercise their right of free speech as an exercise of what is commonly called "TPM" or "time, place manner" regulation of speech. Free speech zones are set up by the Secret Service who scout locations near which the president is to pass or speak. Officials may target those displaying signs and escort them to the free speech zones prior to and during the event. Protesters who refuse to go to free speech zones could be arrested and charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. In 2003, a seldom-used federal law was brought up that says that "willfully and knowingly to enter or remain in any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting" is a crime |
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And do they force everyone (protestor and spectator alike) to remain penned in for 6 or more hours and occasionally charge them with batons for apparantly no reason? |
No idea, but I doubt that they charge them w/ batons for no reason. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
'Kettling' is done in the US regularly, too, under the justification of time, place, and manner of speech regulation.
Wiki 1st Amendment
| Quote: |
| Free speech zones are areas set aside in public places for political activists to exercise their right of free speech as an exercise of what is commonly called "TPM" or "time, place manner" regulation of speech. Free speech zones are set up by the Secret Service who scout locations near which the president is to pass or speak. Officials may target those displaying signs and escort them to the free speech zones prior to and during the event. Protesters who refuse to go to free speech zones could be arrested and charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. In 2003, a seldom-used federal law was brought up that says that "willfully and knowingly to enter or remain in any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting" is a crime |
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And do they force everyone (protestor and spectator alike) to remain penned in for 6 or more hours and occasionally charge them with batons for apparantly no reason? |
No idea, but I doubt that they charge them w/ batons for no reason. |
If you think the police don't attack people unless they themselves are provoked, you haven't been following the London protests then. |
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